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Old 25-08-2012, 10:27   #31
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

On the last leg from Marquesas to Tahiti, out worst daily run was 53 miles. Oooh, so bad!!!!

BUT... We don't run the engines just because the wind disappears!

We just pull out the cards, make some bread or have sex.

On the previous run from Galapagos to Marquesas, the worst runs were 115 and 153 miles, while the best runs were 206 and 208 miles.

Nothing to do with engines, motors, fuel consumption, boat design ...... which is what some should mention....

More to do with sailing and mental attitudes....
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Old 25-08-2012, 10:29   #32
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
On the last leg from Marquesas to Tahiti, out worst daily run was 53 miles. Oooh, so bad!!!!

BUT... We don't run the engines just because the wind disappears!

We just pull out the cards, make some bread or have sex.

snip....
Around here you'd be having a lot of sex
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Old 25-08-2012, 13:12   #33
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

Came across this data:

4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 14 16
90.0 5.47 6.63 7.73 8.78 9.75 10.73 11.78 14.18 17.02 19.94
100.0 5.56 6.72 7.82 8.85 9.80 10.77 11.81 14.22 17.14 20.64
110.0 5.46 6.57 7.61 8.60 9.49 10.37 11.29 13.44 16.12 19.45

Now that are some nice figures.
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Old 25-08-2012, 14:29   #34
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
I did 3000 Nm in 21 days, GPS tracking, Fiji to Bundaberg, I had 3 days off in Vanuatu, So it worked out to be 18 days continuos sailing,

I started off going north due to the winds, I cant sail for ****, At night my boat sailed north, adding lots of miles extra while I tried to sleep,
It also added a lot of miles to my trip during the day when I could not sail south or west,
Man, that is some poor driving, Brian, 'cause on my chart the rhumb line distance from Lautoka to Bundy via Pt Vila is around 1600 miles, not 3000. I know that you were not able to quite sail the rhumb line, but I have a really hard time seeing how you managed 3000 logged miles on that route.

This, of course, might cause a downward trend in your actual average speed.

I don't really care how fast your cat or anyone else's cat sails*, but when quoting data I like to see realism.

Cheers,

Jim

*Unless, of course, they are passing us... then I care! And yes, that does happen at times.
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Old 25-08-2012, 19:37   #35
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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Man, that is some poor driving, Brian, 'cause on my chart the rhumb line distance from Lautoka to Bundy via Pt Vila is around 1600 miles, not 3000. I know that you were not able to quite sail the rhumb line, but I have a really hard time seeing how you managed 3000 logged miles on that route.

This, of course, might cause a downward trend in your actual average speed.

I don't really care how fast your cat or anyone else's cat sails*, but when quoting data I like to see realism.

Cheers,

Jim

*Unless, of course, they are passing us... then I care! And yes, that does happen at times.
It certainly was poor driving, As I have said many times, I cant sail for ****, I had to learn to sail my Gemini to start with, I have driven motor boats all my life,

I came out of Fiji in the middle of it and in the night, and then went north as that was the way the wind was going, I was stuffed after coming out through the reefs at night, That wasnt a fun ride, And I went to bed, I woke the next day and I was well above Fiji,

I didnt do the Rhumb line, I went through the middle of Vanuatu, I went over the top of New Caledonia, And I was higher up than Cairns 3 times,

Being single handed, At night when I slept, The boat went due north, I had to sail back down the next day to where I was the day before, That certainly racked up the extra miles,

The wind and waves were mainly North to north west and I could not get down again,
Going south or south west was near impossible, Well for me any way,

I will be learning to sail my Gem after its repaired and before I head for the Kimberlys,

I am not particularly worried about it, I did get to where I wanted to go eventually,

And I suppose you were never a learner,

You were allways an experienced sailor with many many years of experience before you ever put foot on a sail boat.

Many experienced sailors on here forget that they were learners once too, You learn by doing,

I may be a learner in sailing, But it doesnt mean I am stupid, ignorant, foolish or an idiot, And the heroics, I leave for others

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 25-08-2012, 20:35   #36
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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Originally Posted by Mr B View Post

The wind and waves were mainly North to north west and I could not get down again,
Going south or south west was near impossible, Well for me any way,
Just a quick clarification Brian, if the winds where N to NW why couldn't you sail S or SW ? remembering that.....
Quote:
Wind direction is reported by the direction from which it originates. For example, a northerly wind blows from the north to the south....
Wind direction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 25-08-2012, 22:08   #37
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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Just a quick clarification Brian, if the winds where N to NW why couldn't you sail S or SW ? remembering that.....
Wind direction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sorry, The winds were going to the north and north west,
I left out the Going to Bit,

If I had of known a little bit better or had a bit more knowledge and or sailing experience at the time,
I would have spent the extra time, probably about 6 hours sailing and came out the bottom of Fiji, allowing me to sail south under Vanuatu and New Caledonia, Using the trade winds down there which were going to the south west, and very much to my advantage, And it was only 1600 NM to Oz, Instead of the 3000 I eventually did,

It would have saved me many extra miles and days of sailing,

Its all very much hindsight now,
But it was a good learning curve, I learned a lot about my boat, Its capability, My capability, How to sail my boat, which I knew nothing about,
Its a world apart from sailing my 14 foot Paper Tiger on the local lake,

And one other thing, I had no one to ask or give advice, I was totally on my own out there,
I thoroughly enjoyed the experience, I loved it,

The only person at risk was me, I was not endangering any one else, If I sank, Well, Thats life, I died enjoying some thing I liked doing, The same applys to my bike riding, Live fast, Die quick,

At least I have lived, and intend to go on living, I didnt talk about it on a computer, I actually did do it,
But those really big Crocs up north do bother me a bit, They are a worry,
30 foot tides in the Kimberlys dont worry me at all, You just have to use your Noodle,

The flow of the tides behind Fraser I have fished in, I lived in Maryborough Qld,
I used to drive up from Brissy to fish on the ocean side of Bribie Island, Fished on the rising tide and then went home when the tide was full in, I caught heaps, Nothing better than fresh fish cooked on the beach on an open fire,

But I am open freely to advice,
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Old 25-08-2012, 22:36   #38
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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But those really big Crocs up north do bother me a bit, They are a worry,
30 foot tides in the Kimberlys dont worry me at all, You just have to use your Noodle,
It's not the up and down movement of the water you have to worry about (except in those areas that are poorly surveyed) it's the associated current's......

....ocean side of Bribie Island....
Am listining to the waves breaking on that very beach at the moment...
......
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Old 25-08-2012, 22:40   #39
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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......
I am Very Jealous, That is one nice beach,
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Old 25-08-2012, 22:44   #40
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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Frankly, I think that this is unlikely, IF you really mean average speeds for a whole passage. My observation is that most of us tend to say "average" speed when we mean "average of the best speeds obtained on a trip".

We often sail in the company of cruising cats here on teh East coast of Oz. A few of them have been pretty fast, and have waxed our butts. But the majority are pretty ordinary, even off the wind, and are certainly NOT averaging anywhere near 8 knots, and the vast majority just turn on the engines if windward work is required. I don't object to this practice, but feel that it should be included in the statements about "average speeds".

Cruising cats have many attributes, and are deservedly popular, especially on the Queensland coast where conditions favor them. But their claims of great sailing speeds are all too often not demonstrable in the real world.

Cheers,

Jim

I would agree entirely with this. Seen it happen enough times going up the same stretch of coast. Also on longer passages.
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Old 25-08-2012, 23:02   #41
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

For the OP. Noticing a lack of responses from 420 owners. I asked similary questions. Usually the response was 5-6 knots, so approx a knot slower. However, due to the weight of the 420 the ride is very smooth. These comments make sense. I might settle for a slower ride to gain the awesome layout. Hopefully an actual 420 owner will add their opinion.

Plan to charter one early next year to see for myself.
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Old 25-08-2012, 23:14   #42
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

I'ts a given in sailing that averages are over a 24 hour run, methinks lots of people are looking at a 4 hour timeframe where they were sailing at around 11 to 13 knots and then coming up with an average figure of 12. (or some 16)

A comfortable 40+ cruising cat with comforts on a coast such as Qld showing 8's to 12's on the log (not averages!) is a handy boat.

On a tradewind passage i would be most happy with daily averages of 165+. We trim very constantly and as i've said before usually sit on in excess of half windspeed.

Wind, tide and waves are FICKLE and just when you sit back there is a major shift, but at the end of the day it is pleasing if it was a day spent sailing, dealing with all things that pop up.

Off the subject, 30 years ago i met a family who were finalising a 4000 mile sail in a beautiful Olde Lugger style yacht (gaff rigged), it had Red sails, varnished masts, traditional green paint-job.

The boats name was "Ultima Thule of Rhyll" The family were close knit (5) beaming smiles they absolutely loved their trip.

At the time we were on our 35' Adams sloop, a world away in design from their boat, the owner was talking to me about our boats high turn of speed when he said, "WE DID 4000 MILES AT AN AVERAGE SPEED OF 2.7 KNOTS WE COULD'A WALKED QUICKER BUT HELL WE HAD SOME FUN!!!"

Remember 'Speed abides timetables when you cruise, timetables are dangerous when you sail'

Cheers Frank
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Old 26-08-2012, 08:24   #43
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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For the OP. Noticing a lack of responses from 420 owners. ...

Noticed this too and started thinking about how many 420's I've seen here in the Western Carib. And, the answer is "one". There is one in charter service in the TMM fleet, but I have not sailed it, and I don't recall ever seeing one cruising here (I've seen other Lagoon models, but not the 420).

Last year we sailed from the Rio Dulce to Bocas del Toro and I only recall seeing one Lagoon (a 41), but lots of other makes of cats: FPs, St. Francis, quite a few Mantas, a couple of Wildcats, PDQs, and a couple of custom builds.

If the 42's performance is not stellar that also may of course contribute to fewer responses.
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Old 26-08-2012, 09:42   #44
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

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I'ts a given in sailing that averages are over a 24 hour run, methinks lots of people are looking at a 4 hour timeframe where they were sailing at around 11 to 13 knots and then coming up with an average figure of 12. (or some 16)....
Got to thinking about that and went back and crunched some numbers from last cruising season. When cruising I am more driven by weather windows, comfort, where we want to go next, and catching fish than achieving optimal VMG, so I don't pay very close attention to the actual numbers underway. However, I had FUGAWI running on my laptop for most longer runs and it logged all the data so I had something to work with.

Given that this was all coastal hopping it's a bit more challenging to get nice clean 24 hour logs than it would be on a longer crossing, but here's what I discovered.

These numbers are not relevant to the OP's original query about the Lagoon 420, but are generally relevant to where the discussion has gone. These are aboard a Wildcat 35, outfitted for liveaboard/cruising (AC, watermaker, etc) and heavily loaded for comfortable cruising.

A representative 24 hour (actually about 23.5) run for us was 148 miles at 6.29 knots overall average speed. Our max speed during this run was 10.2 knots, minimum speeds were less than 1 knot -- playing a fish! There was one log entry of 42 knots (!)...must have dropped the GPS antenna...I deleted that one since the fastest I have ever sailed this boat was about 15 knots (surfing).

Over our entire 906nm route we averaged 5.72 knots. I normally use 6 knots for planning purposes so turns out that is pretty close to correct.

It would be interesting to integrate all the instruments and collect wind, current, and engine hours, but I'm not sure I want to go there for cruising purposes.
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Old 26-08-2012, 10:46   #45
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Re: Average Cruising Speed - Production Cats

LMAO Maybe that was the delivery speed of the GPS via UPS!!!!

Fish can impact big time as well as hats, kids and little dogs that blow over the side from time to time.

Agree on the 6knots getting their early is a bonus a bit later those damn fish!!!!

Cheers
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