Attaching anchor chain to bridle?

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Don't lean. Attach it inside the roller. For momohulls, this is why they like it so well--it goes over the roller well. But that can also work for cats.

if you want to use a soft shackle to attach a bridle hanging free, or attach a second rode, use a carabiner around the eye and the chain. It will hold things still while you thread. Very easy. Then release the carabiner.

For no metal coming over the roller, we use one long line as the bridle with a dyneema loop in the middle attached by prusik knot. The soft shackle goes through the prusik's loop and the chain. A nice soft bundle to pull completely up over the roller and onto the tramp.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by carstenb

... A BIG advantage of a soft shackle is if you have to bug out some night in the dark - simply cut the darn thing and winch in your anchor....

I don't understand this, or I believe you are doing something I disagree with.

a. If the snubber is long enough to actually absorb wave impact, it is 30 feet in front of the boat and you can't reach it to cut it. On the other hand, cutting ANY snubber--or simply uncleating it--is easy.

b. If the snubber is with in reach, it is not an effective snubber.

Simply, cutting or releasing any rope snubber is easy, so I don't understand how this is a "thing." Heck, the rope is worth far less than the soft shackle, if you just trim a few feet from the end. Why would you cut the shackle?

And how many of us have ever left in the night under such conditions that we abandoned the anchor? I think that is unusual at best, and something we do 1-2 times in a lifetime is not a decision factor when it barely matter s anyway. Just cleat the snubber, if you think it is likely.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I don't understand this, or I believe you are doing something I disagree with.

a. If the snubber is long enough to actually absorb wave impact, it is 30 feet in front of the boat and you can't reach it to cut it. On the other hand, cutting ANY snubber--or simply uncleating it--is easy.

b. If the snubber is with in reach, it is not an effective snubber.

Simply, cutting or releasing any rope snubber is easy, so I don't understand how this is a "thing." Heck, the rope is worth far less than the soft shackle, if you just trim a few feet from the end. Why would you cut the shackle?

And how many of us have ever left in the night under such conditions that we abandoned the anchor? I think that is unusual at best, and something we do 1-2 times in a lifetime is not a decision factor when it barely matter s anyway. Just cleat the snubber, if you think it is likely.

our snubber is easily 30 feet out - but if you have to bug out in the dark - winch in your anchor until your snubber is just outside the roller and then you can cut the shackle and winch it in the rest of the way.

Wasn't thinking about abandoning the anchor - but some fellows in front of us at Bequia dragged their anchor and when they went to take it in (to move and anchor in a different spot) they had one hell of a time getting the shackle off the chain in the dark with the big swell rolling.

If they'd been using a soft shackle they could have just cut it

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by carstenb

... - winch in your anchor until your snubber is just outside the roller and then you can cut the shackle and winch it in the rest of the way....

That makes even less sense. Most hooks practically fall off one the tension is off. They were doing something wrong.

And they still could have cut the snubber at the cleat, easier than cutting Amsteel.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by thinwater

That makes even less sense. Most hooks practically fall off one the tension is off. They were doing something wrong.

And they still could have cut the snubber at the cleat, easier than cutting Amsteel.

Well, all I can say is they were having a hell of a time getting it off. Not sure why you say Amstel is hard to cut - My knives cut it no problem, but then I do keep them all very sharp and check the edges regularly

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by thinwater

That makes even less sense. Most hooks practically fall off one the tension is off. They were doing something wrong.

And they still could have cut the snubber at the cleat, easier than cutting Amsteel.

Agreed and unless I am not interpeting this correct the vessel in question was using an actual steel shackle. Which is not a good practice. (IMHO)

[etterridge]

I have a combination rode with only 50 feet of chain before 150 feet of 3/4 nylon. When I can anchor in shallows my stainless carabiners are ready to connect to the chain from 'stored' position on the bale of the anchor roller. That bridle is "permanently " attached. In water deeper than 10 feet. I have been using a wrap around the rode and the hooking the cabinet on its own bridle line - unless it's a blow,. The side load on the cleaning isn't strong so I superimpose a second bridle using the rolling hitch. I find that the rolling hitch will slide if I slacken the main rode very much between the bridle and the bits.

Until I go all chain (soon) I am going to try some of the suggested knots loops a and hitches suggested here.

If your ride is all chain then the carabiners should work for you.

Mine get replaced every year but that is no big expense,.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

For no metal coming over the roller, we use one long line as the bridle with a dyneema loop in the middle attached by prusik knot. The soft shackle goes through the prusik's loop and the chain. A nice soft bundle to pull completely up over the roller and onto the tramp.

This topic comes up every couple of years, so I was surprised that I learned something new this time around. For years I have used a covered dyneema loop about 6' long, attached to the bridle with a prussik and to the chain with a riggers hitch, but I think next time I change the loop due to chafe I will try your method.

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by thinwater

A rolling hitch will slip on most chain at about 30% WLL of the chain. I've tested this with a load cell on several grades of chain. Additionally, I've interviewed a number of cruisers that have either stopped using the rolling hitch or that use 2 in a row because they have experienced slipping.

I guess it depends on the exact rope, chain, and how much load you have seen (30% WLL is actually a pretty good storm).

This has been my experience as well. The rolling hitch (actually a 'rigger's hitch') I was using slipped a bit during a 3 day blow with williwas to 50 knots, so I started tying it using a loop of line, rather than a single line. My hope is that this effectively doubles the friction and in practice I have had no issues since, although, just to be safe, I put a figure 8 in the end of the loop now.

[peterp]

Great subject, I just use a shackle, bend over the front and screw the pin in through the chain, very undignified I havent had a problem so far however that Mantus hook looks a much better system as long as the plastic keeper stays intact. To help my terminology understanding is a catamaran bridle a 'snubber'

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by peterp

To help my terminology understanding is a catamaran bridle a 'snubber'

Not really. Monos often use a short rope off the bow to lessen the shock of a chain rode and to take load off the anchor windlass. This "snubber" is usually nylon and may have a rubber insert to give a bit more elasticity. Some monos use two short snubbers, one either side of the bow and call this a " bridle".

A catamaran bridle, as you are aware, is much longer, or should be if done correctly. It performs the shock reduction function, as well as reducing swing or "yawing" at anchor.

As has been stated several times in this thread, what works to attach snubber or bridle to chain on a mono, most definitely may not be appropriate for a catamaran bridle.

A "bridal" is often referred to on CF. I can appreciate a connection to being matrimonically chained, but do not understand this term in a nautical context. ☺

[peterp]

Thanks for clarification that Tuskie. I contacted Mantus here in Melbourne today and I am going to order one of there chain hooks, they advised they now have the improved version. I just need to check my chain size.

Mantus Chain Hook
Hook Sizing Recommendations
Hook Size WLL UBS Shackle (Size) Recommended Bridle Rope
1/4 in (6-7mm) 1,073 lbs 4,294 lbs 3/8 in Shackle 1/2 in
5/16 in (8mm) 1,877 lbs 7,511 lbs 7/16 in Shackle 5/8 in
3/8 in (10mm) 2,215 lbs 8,859 lbs 1/2 in Shackle 3/4 in
1/2 in (12-13mm) 3,442 lbs 13,767 lbs 5/8 in Shackle 1 in
The safety factor we use to determine the safe working load is 4, where other manufacturers use the safety factor of 3 or lower thus UBS is the best way to compare strength between products.

The material properties of the carbon steel we use when manufacturing galvanized steel hook are the very similar to 316 stainless steel, thus the WLL and UBS values are practically the same for the galvanized and stainless steel hooks.

These strength ratings are lower then previously reported: see why here

Shackles are now included with the hooks
Galvanized Shackle WLL UBS Stainless Steel Shackle WLL UBS
7/16 3,300 lbs 19,800 lbs 7/16 2000 lbs 10,000 lbs
1/2 4,400 lbs 26,400 lbs 1/2 3000 lbs 15,000 lbs
5/8 7,150 lbs 42,900 lbs 5/8 4000 lbs 20,000 lbs


Hook Pricing
*(NEW PRICES REFLECT THE ADDITION OF THE SHACKLE AND THE PLASTIC GATE TO THE HOOK PACKAGE)

1/4 5/16 3/8 1/2
316L (electro-polished) SS $36 $42 $69 $113
Galvanized (Hot Dipped) $19 $27 $41 $65
CALL US WITH ANY QUESTION:
WITHIN THE US: 1-855-262-6887
BEYOND THE US: 469-226-3468 / 469-878-4083

[tuskie]

Peterp, the 10mm, 3/8" Mantus hook fits our chain well and was great until the plastic retainer broke.

Thanks to welcome information from this thread regarding a new improved plastic retainer, I contacted the Australian Mantus distributer. Pleased to advise that they stock supplies of the new plastic retainer, and as I originally purchased through them, will sent me a replacement free of charge.
Great to see a company that stands by its products and customers.

[SVNeko]

How has the Mantus hook plastic retainer been improved? When I last used it, you had to shave a bit off the little tongue that goes into the hook in order to allow it to be swiveled into place.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

How has the Mantus hook plastic retainer been improved? When I last used it, you had to shave a bit off the little tongue that goes into the hook in order to allow it to be swiveled into place.

Maybe others can elaborate, but was told that a more flexible plastic polymer has been used to produce the retainer.