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Old 19-03-2014, 06:10   #1351
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I've said before.. I'm a bottom feeder..[/SIZE]
Once you have admitted such a thing you would think that others would find it a waste of time continue pounding on you.

But I bet it doesn't stop it.
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Old 19-03-2014, 06:12   #1352
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post

I've said before.. I'm a bottom feeder...
A Grouper with groupies....

(edit: wow... a double post taking the same line from a tome... )
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Old 19-03-2014, 06:16   #1353
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pirate Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by Snore View Post
Boatie

While I have the deepest respect for your skills as a mariner, I believe you have rendered an opinion regarding water that you are not qualified to provide.

When was the last time the water tanks on the vessel were cleaned? Was the hose used to fill the tanks clean, or had some dog peed on it? Regarding bottled water, have you tasted the water in Rome or some parts of Eastern Europe? Trust me, I only drink tap water in most of the US and bottled in the EU.

Since this was posted in a public forum, I have to ask if you checked the chlorine residual in the water? Did you add cl to ensure it had no active bacteria? No... they would not clear my chemical analysis equipment through Miami airport And FWIW the adding of CL to water was started in Europe...

Okay rant over
LMAO... is that what the severe 'Bad Egg' smell was when I showered in a Motel in NY State.. or the reason for growths in my tanks on my Hunter in '05.. all I can go on is personal experience.
Oh.. in Italy they add garlic..
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Old 19-03-2014, 06:31   #1354
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Right-on Boaty! I give you credit for posting at all in view of the huge number of arm-chair quarterbacks who have been on the attack. We have one who is positive that he could have started at least one of the diesels and avoided all of the drama. We have another who would have told the owner that he had to pay for a shake-down cruise to the Bahamas (and obviously back, if repairs were required) prior to agreeing to the delivery. Obviously, the owner would have had to pay for you and your crew to wait in port back in Fla while any repairs you demanded were effected. Oh and yes, you should have had more crew (not that I can see how that would have avoided any of the problems that arose). Gee, why didn't you think of making these demands? I'm sure any owner would have readily agreed to those conditions!

You correctly assessed the difficulties posed by the electrical faliure and decided to continue, rather than pulling into to Bermuda to effect repairs at one of the most costly places on the planet. You then safely brought the boat to the Azores without any further damage; indeed, rather than risking more damage to the mainsail, proceeded under the genny alone. And you arrived safely. What's the matter with you Boaty - what kind of delivery skipper are you?????

Brad
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Old 19-03-2014, 06:36   #1355
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by DumnMad View Post
Quote "Before departure the Delivery Skipper would inspect the systems on board and also enquire about their age, service history and any known issues with any of them. The Delivery Skipper could then demand that any items of concern be serviced or replaced prior to leaving port.

No one knows the full details of this particular whole delivery process other than Boatie himself.

I would be very interested to know what he has learnt from this experience.

With the benefit of hindsight are there any things that he would have done differently if he was starting this trip all over again? Also, what information has he added to his "professional knowledge bank" for future deliveries?

I think that his personal feedback and advice would be the most valuable bits of information to everyone reading this thread.

Once we have his feedback then we can ask meaningful questions that are directly relevant to his information without going into tangents and speculation.
Maybe he's not a boat surveyor, inspector, or lawyer. He's an adventurer who delivers second hand boats. Seems to me he could have sailed a raft to the Azores(as long as he brought a hand operated watermaker so why would he turn down a job because the boat wasn't proof tested.[/QUOTE]
And I'm sure he can leap tall buildings with a single bound too, BUT can we at least agree that it would be prudent, before setting out for the Azores on his watermaker equipped raft, to verify that it is indeed a raft rather then just several logs floating side by side, and that he also remembered his compass?

Seriously, I don't for a minute question that he is a very experienced sailor and he obviously does a lot of things right or he wouldn't still be around, but I'd hope that he didn't set out across the Atlantic knowing that important parts of the boats electrical system were already compromised or likely to fail, and without checking out the water quality in the tanks or having a whole lot of bottled water aboard to drink. As it turned out he was very lucky to have been able to flag down that cargo vessel that bailed him out by sharing their drinking water.

In fact, any boat that I knew had been sitting in a warm climate for sale and not being used for any length of time, I'd want to look down into the fuel tanks to check for sludge or get the fuel polished before setting out. I learned that one the hard way when after a winter in the Bahamas, rough weather in the Gulf Stream stirred up all the sludge on the bottom that had built up and shut down all means of making electricity. It's surprising how fast you can go through 6 extra Racor filters and cleaning them with a toothbrush only yields about 10 minutes of use and it's a pain in the butt to have no autopilot or radios with only 2 onboard. And even if you're a competent mechanic, it doesn't do your stomach or your awareness of what else is going on with the boat much good to be spending half your time with your head in the engine room replacing racor filters. That's why you check out and correct as many foreseeable issues ahead of time, so you don't have to use your superior ability to "cope" or fix any more of them than necessary later on while you are underway, because doing all the "coping" keeps you from attending to other things required of you during the passage.

I realize that delivery skippers are often put in the position of inheriting other peoples problems so they have a little different mindset than those of us who cruise aboard our own boats. I've done just a few paid deliveries and I really don't like the feeling of not knowing virtually everything about the boat I'm on the way I do my own boat. I'm pretty confident in my ability to jury rig things or think out of the box to fix most things found aboard, but it still just makes me uneasy to have so many unanswered questions in my head about details of the boats systems and condition, and it's one big reason I haven't done more deliveries. So, on one extreme we have the conscientious cruising sailor who has spare parts for just about everything aboard and knows how to fix them and knows exactly what every bump and creak aboard his boat means without even thinking about it, and then we have the most cavalier and overconfident delivery skipper who steps aboard anything that floats and sails off with barely any evaluation of the boats condition, confident that he can handle whatever problems might arise. It's a romantic notion but I think the best practice lies somewhere in between. Realistically, there's no way that before he sets out, a delivery skipper like Boatie can learn the details of each boat like most of us know our own boats, but there ARE certain things such as water tanks that are pretty necessary to have full of fresh water and are easy to check out, or to verify that sails are at least serviceable or the fuel tanks aren't contaminated or where is the spare alternator or belt stored? I'd like to know if he, or any other experienced delivery skipper, has a pre departure checklist or mental checklist to check on such things, and where he draws the line as far as electrical issues go. Maybe Boatie will come on and honestly share that with us and why he thinks so many things went wrong on this crossing and maybe he won't, but it's worth thinking about how a little time spent checking things out before departure can help avoid a cascade of problems later on.
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Old 19-03-2014, 06:37   #1356
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

quote phil
"The bit not so far mentioned is that the Horta lifeboat went out looking for me when the Navtex message was flashed.. apparently they used over 2000L of fuel looking for me.. sadly no one took the trouble to give or radio them my Spot position updates so they were looking for me based on last position and course supplied by 'Praia' when we parted company.."

intresting that as jp had the link to the spot right from the beggining when i sent my first email,before me contacting the owner and putting him in contact with jp.

mar 14 11.24
hi jean pierre
hope you are well and the family.

i have a friend who is delivering a catamaran from florida,who appears to be in difficulties,he is currently about 100 miles from horta,making about 2 knots (37.50N x 30.35W at 09.30 am this morning),so should get in on sunday at his current speed,though he may be able to motor once he gets a bit closer,i suspect he has had a rig failure,so will probably need your services.

the skippers name is phil jahans,perhaps you have met him,the cat is a lagoon 44,he will also need to tie up somewhere so if you can could you inform the marina of his arrival.

we have not been able to speak to him ,but have been tracking him on a sattelite tracker,watching his progress,and it appears that something happened about a week ago with consistent daily runs of 170 miles,down to 50-60 for the last week.

cheers alex bond(skipper on c d,last december)
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Old 19-03-2014, 06:47   #1357
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Indeed ... on a scale where the degree of difficulty of delivering boats is around 10,

the degree of difficulty of telling others how they should have done it rates somewhere around 0.
+1

I mean why didn't he tow a spare sail boat behind him as a safety back up? That's what I would have done,

Now that some info is coming out its easy to criticize. He took the job he had available to make money. What is better? Taking the job at hand at a known risk or demanding to have the boat be brand new and loosing the job all together?

I feel bad that he was put in this situation, but I still stand behind what I said at the time with the information we had at that time. Which was if the owner wants to pay for a tow the time at which it was done was a safe time to complete such a task with the weather window and all.

Now that I know what I know obviously my opinion would have changed but I didn't know what I didn't and made my assumptions based on the info at hand.

Dissecting and analyzing the events helpful. Arm chairing and criticizing what should have been done purely in hindsight not helpful.
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Old 19-03-2014, 06:51   #1358
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Okay. lets clear up a few things here..
Finally, the voca of reason. Let the others get back in their worm holes and munch on dead thoughts.

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Old 19-03-2014, 06:53   #1359
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Indeed ... on a scale where the degree of difficulty of delivering boats is around 10,

the degree of difficulty of telling others how they should have done it rates somewhere around 0.
+1

lots of posters here must be getting a sore arse from all the couch sailing they have been doing
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Old 19-03-2014, 06:59   #1360
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
Right-on Boaty! I give you credit for posting at all in view of the huge number of arm-chair quarterbacks who have been on the attack. We have one who is positive that he could have started at least one of the diesels and avoided all of the drama. We have another who would have told the owner that he had to pay for a shake-down cruise to the Bahamas (and obviously back, if repairs were required) prior to agreeing to the delivery. Obviously, the owner would have had to pay for you and your crew to wait in port back in Fla while any repairs you demanded were effected. Oh and yes, you should have had more crew (not that I can see how that would have avoided any of the problems that arose). Gee, why didn't you think of making these demands? I'm sure any owner would have readily agreed to those conditions!

You correctly assessed the difficulties posed by the electrical faliure and decided to continue, rather than pulling into to Bermuda to effect repairs at one of the most costly places on the planet. You then safely brought the boat to the Azores without any further damage; indeed, rather than risking more damage to the mainsail, proceeded under the genny alone. And you arrived safely. What's the matter with you Boaty - what kind of delivery skipper are you?????

Brad
This post just oozes...
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Old 19-03-2014, 07:02   #1361
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Boaty lovey,

You should forget all this nonsense and come sailing with me. All you will have to do is look cute in a sarong in a hammock on the foredeck.

Mwaah!
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Old 19-03-2014, 07:13   #1362
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

These second guessers are an eternal intestinal squeeze, worse than stale bilge water.

Post analysis results in nothing useful because every journey is different. You can never catch up and you cannot prepare for every contingency. There are too many variables in the equation -- including the environment, and yourself. Nature will always find a hole.

So, another way is to count on less, and go light into the field.

Or as Anne Truitt use to say every morning before she painted:

"I have everything I need to do my work."
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Old 19-03-2014, 07:18   #1363
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Boaty,

I would really like to hear what you think of the Lagoon that you sailed on this delivery. Not all the stuff everyone is talking about but about the boat itself, how it sails,how it goes to weather and just your general impression. What would you like to see different in the design/systems/build that sort of thing. If you have the time of course. Cheers, R
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Old 19-03-2014, 07:37   #1364
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pirate Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
+1 lots of posters here must be getting a sore arse from all the couch sailing they have been doing
The chafe is the worst thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeFloats View Post
Boaty lovey,

You should forget all this nonsense and come sailing with me. All you will have to do is look cute in a sarong in a hammock on the foredeck.

Mwaah!
Hmmm. I didn't see this coming.

I, too, am a bottom feeder and relatively close by! Some gal some where might possibly think I look cute in a sarong in a hammock on the foredeck... it could be you.


Boaty might be betta but he's busy.


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Old 19-03-2014, 07:43   #1365
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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The chafe is the worst thing!

You crabs and your chafe!

I thought you were tougher than that...
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