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Old 17-03-2014, 17:50   #1201
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Atoll,

I would have said the CG overreacted, but i was unaware how seriously they would take the securite, and that their response is the required one for the local area. Had I known, I probably would have written that, here in CF, and a whole lot of people's concern and energy might have been saved.

I am sorry for the hassles for JP, whom everybody seems to think is a good guy. I hope it isn't too difficult for him to get his situation sorted out.

Possibly Boatie's stopping at night was partly made so that he would remain close to his evening SPOT position. Do you think now, that Boatman would have known that his putting out the securite would bring the CG out looking for him?

I've been mentally kicking myself over not putting together Boatie's stated preference for sleeping 8 hrs. at night, and the not moving much over 12 hrs. I mean, really, why not stop it when you can't drive it conveniently? I totally misinterpreted that, and glommed onto the storm jib idea.

And of course, I am glad they're in safe and sound.

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Old 17-03-2014, 17:51   #1202
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by Tx J View Post
And: 'Nobody Expects the Portugese Inquisition'...
The Spanish Inquisition (Monty Python) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Devolving into absurdity...

And that 'ol moon was just showing behind Pico a bit ago, but is dark now, weather coming (clouds earlier were looking thick)?

I see no grounds whatsoever to ridicule the Portuguese rescue authorities

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Old 17-03-2014, 17:53   #1203
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
<< If he informed the authorities did they not tell him they were searching. If he informed them appropriately they have no grounds to fine him. >>

Cripes, Dave, read/decode what J.P wrote, willya

Your first sentence is missing some words, in any case, so it's indecipherable, and you don't have J-P's excuse...

There's little enough 'signal' as it is, without you adding your weight to those amplifying the noise.

And yes, I too am agog to hear details of what was stopping the main from going up

I said if he told them before he left that he was effecting a rescue of the boat and clearly so informed them , I see no grounds for a fine.

I would be very surprised that they hadn't told him that there was a search underway though.

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Old 17-03-2014, 18:01   #1204
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

I never felt a emergency vibe at all. Without the spot and just seeing the securite message I bet there would of been even more of a thought of what's going on. It helped to locate boatie a lot sooner to see if a lift was needed. Now we are all finding out there was more to just no power. It was nice a freighter did spare some fresh water. Something we had no idea about.

I see friends, mates, family, and concerned folk all wondering and feel there was something just not right.

A very interesting thread. Thanks for inviting the forum on this journey.

wondering around with no destionation
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:02   #1205
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
If he informed the authorities did they not tell him they were searching. If he informed them appropriately they have no grounds to fine him.

I do find in Portugal, that the rules can get applied rather precisely. It's not my favourite place to visit as a result.

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the fine was for not having a safety inspection of his vessel,and when the port captain told him it was going to cost 200 euros he stormed out the office,all this i belive happened at 6am in the morning as he was leaving to get phil,.......drama in horta as well!.......must be the full moon
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:11   #1206
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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the fine was for not having a safety inspection of his vessel,and when the port captain told him it was going to cost 200 euros he stormed out the office,all this i belive happened at 6am in the morning as he was leaving to get phil,.......drama in horta as well!.......must be the full moon
Hey Atol, while running the risk of being scorned again from Crab ! was the safety inspection fee 150-200 (what ever) not a fine but a fee mandatory to classify is vessel safe for rescue missions. I know you dont have all the answers and your doing your best to do so
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:13   #1207
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Doesn't seem like this port capt is gonna make a lot of local friends, now is it?
Be a shame if something happened to his French cat.

JP gonna get reimbursed for all this?
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:15   #1208
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
....

Electric issues strike me as one of the biggest issues for cruisers and as I follow CF the more this issue is reinforced. One of if not the best and cheapest sources of this is solar.

......
That makes sense if we interpret "Electric Issues" as lack of available DC amps

However an alternative interpretation (admittedly more rigorous and hence less fashionable) is that "Electric Issues" ultimately reflect excessive dependence on electricity.

In this case, (subject to clarification) potentially not just to start the motor, but to then use the motor to poke the vessel into the wind so as to get the mainsail up. (Which on large modern vessels may also rely on electric winches)

- - - -

This creeping increase in reliance on what (to my mind) should be 'creature comforts' is worrying. Take marine diesels:

It's not hard to retrofit (even en route) a highly reliable alternative to an electric starter motor, in many cases.

What worries me more is that modern marine diesels are generally dependent on electricity to keep them running (smart injection, etc)

At the moment it's still possible to buy "old school" diesels (capable of running underwater, at a pinch, but which will certainly run without electricity once they're running) and refurb them if necessary, - but what's a feller to do when that supply dries up?
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:16   #1209
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Atoll,

I would have said the CG overreacted, but i was unaware how seriously they would take the securite, and that their response is the required one for the local area. Had I known, I probably would have written that, here in CF, and a whole lot of people's concern and energy might have been saved.

I am sorry for the hassles for JP, whom everybody seems to think is a good guy. I hope it isn't too difficult for him to get his situation sorted out.

Possibly Boatie's stopping at night was partly made so that he would remain close to his evening SPOT position. Do you think now, that Boatman would have known that his putting out the securite would bring the CG out looking for him?

I've been mentally kicking myself over not putting together Boatie's stated preference for sleeping 8 hrs. at night, and the not moving much over 12 hrs. I mean, really, why not stop it when you can't drive it conveniently? I totally misinterpreted that, and glommed onto the storm jib idea.

And of course, I am glad they're in safe and sound.

Ann
i dont have the statistics for the azores,but every year the azores coast guard y have a lot more than their fair share of rescues,wrecks and missing sailors around the islands.

just last year off the top of my head i can think of 3 missing yacthts,and at least 9 deaths in the area in the last 12 months of vessels on passage to the azores.

an early season passage like phils belive me they were watching closely and not over reacting.

watch the weather webcam tomorrow as conditions change.
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:20   #1210
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
That makes sense if we interpret "Electric Issues" as lack of available DC amps



However an alternative interpretation (admittedly more rigorous and hence less fashionable) is that "Electric Issues" ultimately reflect excessive dependence on electricity.



In this case, (subject to clarification) potentially not just to start the motor, but to then use the motor to poke the vessel into the wind so as to get the mainsail up. (Which on large modern vessels may also rely on electric winches)



- - - -



This creeping increase in reliance on what (to my mind) should be 'creature comforts' is worrying. Take marine diesels:



It's not hard to retrofit (even en route) an alternative to an electric starter motor, in many cases.



What worries me more is that modern marine diesels are generally dependent on electricity to keep them running (smart injection, etc)



At the moment it's still possible to buy "old school" diesels (which will run underwater, at a pinch) and refurb them, - but what's a feller to do when that supply dries up?

Actually modern diesels are very difficult to start other then by starter motor, and it's not possible short of being Michael desoyeaux to hand start them.

In practice if you loose electrical power you will not be able to start a diesel today

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Old 17-03-2014, 18:20   #1211
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

May be I have a language problem here.

Rescue: to save (someone or something) from danger or harm

Merriam Webster

Is it proper to call JP action a rescue?
For the circumstances given it was only a tow arranged by owner of the boat to facilitate the quicker taking the becalmed boat to the harbour.
As I understand the Port Captain insisted that to deliver such a service the JP's boat must be inspected. JP decided to go without inspection, and was - as I understand - fined because of this.
Would he pretend going just for reconaissance on behalf of owner, and deciding to give a friendly tow after finding Boatman and realizing he just can get him into the harbour, may be he had not annoyed the authority.

But may be my reasoning is unproper and based on wrong understanding of the word rescue.
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:24   #1212
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

Quote:
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Hey Atol, while running the risk of being scorned again from Crab ! was the safety inspection fee 150-200 (what ever) not a fine but a fee mandatory to classify is vessel safe for rescue missions. I know you dont have all the answers and your doing your best to do so
thats what i have been told,the fine came later for not having a safety insection.

in the past JP has towed in numerous yachts over many years needing assistance around the islands ,and never has he been asked for a safety inspection.......
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:25   #1213
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pirate Re: Atlantic Delivery

STOP...... being trying to catch up on this thread and you lot are posting faster than I can read...
Every time I go to the next page there's 5 pages more...
Okay... headed out under the Causeway bridge at 12 noon the 19th and officially started the trip..
Ran N with the E winds.. no other choice,, got to around 29N before I picked up something to make some E'ing.. did not like the Electric Light Show for the next few nights so ran SW as soon as possible (no weatherfax on board.. just reading the Mare's Tails)
Generator died day 5 so shut down all electrics except for basics.. AP and nav lights as owner had said alternators were dubious.. all seemed good as was running engines AM and PM.. but was a Fools Dream as on day 13 the engines would not start.. no power in batteries.. solar panels were creating a temporary illusion.
Did consider running for SMX to get the Gennie fixed but the S winds were blowing so sweet they to me back a few years to when I skippered a sweet Caravel for Isabella.. got caught in a gale and blown N of the Indies.. found a S'ly passage that took us clear to Madeira... inspired me to pen a ditty 'Blow ye S Wind.. Blow.. carry me home to Cadiz...' later plagiarized by some damned Englishman...
Anyway.. the decision was now continue to Madeira another 1200 miles or run for Horta.. 500 miles closer.
Horta won.. and my record breaking to Europe went down the pan.
Took 10 days to get 630 miles.. on the 15th called the container vessel Praia for assistance as we were down to 2 litres of bottled water.. Florida water in the tanks had nasty growths and stomach cramps and vomiting.. awesome Captain.. turned his boat and came round to where I could sail up to him and take a line.. gifted us 12 one and a half litre bottles of water, fresh bread, apples, and 200 ciggies... and the Phillipino crew took thousands of pic's.. hope to get some..
Anyway.. he broadcast our situation on Navtex it seems and saviours were sent forth.. we met them 37 miles from Horta as we sailed in..
For those wondering about the stop-go towards the end.. light winds.. no power after sunset as the SP's were feeding the AP.. and at sunset the batteries were dumping the juice gained.. so I went to bed..
Folks.. I'm up to page 27 and loving the fact that its getting you guys thinking about how things work out there and various other **** like where the sexiest barmaids are..
Will post again but for now.. gotta go back to 27.. to good to stop..
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:27   #1214
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So, explain how a boat that looks like a solar farm would help with batteries that have died (i.e. won't hold a charge)? No matter how many solars panels you cover your boat with, none of them work at night.
The batteries likely got murdered ( they did not die) because of permanent undercharging for years. Most cruising batteries suffer that fate. Larger solar would have prevented this.

Sorry about the drift.
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Old 17-03-2014, 18:33   #1215
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Re: Atlantic Delivery

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The batteries likely got murdered ( they did not die) because of permanent undercharging for years. Most cruising batteries suffer that fate. Larger solar would have prevented this.

Sorry about the drift.
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