Atlantic 57 Catamaran Capsized

[Pelagic]

So has there been any factual information given out yet?

[arsenelupiga]

noone dares to say it so I will:

driving performance cat to its potential requires attention, same as perfomance monohull, maybe more - ie manual steering. As cats have so many cosy places to enjoy, people forget about it, relax, and cause accident.

Driving performance cat without attention safely, dont bother, buy lagoon will do the same performance in more style and cheaper.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

The whole concept of a large performance cruising sailing catamaran for a couple then appears totally bizarre

And yet i know of many couples who do precisely that. Friends who have a 16.5 metre schionning have cruised the south pacific as a couple, another mate who had a 18 metre schionning and is now building a 20 metre does the same, so the perspective here may be your lack of knowledge and experience rather than the design.

[Sos]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Simple answer. The smaller the crew the earlier you reef. Especially when under autopilot.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

noone dares to say it so I will:

driving performance cat to its potential requires attention, same as perfomance monohull, maybe more - ie manual steering

Here is a performance mono on autopilot--no capsize worries.

Alex Thomson Racing – Sail Survive Succeed

[Franziska]

Good he did not loose his keel yet, or worse hit something ;-)

Sorry couldn't resist...

[seaskip]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

Yes , but how does one accomplish this in reality?

Does one hand hold the sheet tails? Does one come out of the hermetically sealed cabin and experience the elements and feel the first cool breath of an approaching down draft?

Does one stand by the wheel ready to bear off in that first big puff?

Well if the answer is yes then how on earth does one accomplish this with very small crew. A couple would effectively be taking turns to single hand a 57 footer standing in the elements , highly alert for 24 hours a day.

So the reality is then to be safe you reef right down and slop around going no where fast, or crank up the donks and motor.

The whole concept of a large performance cruising sailing catamaran for a couple then appears totally bizarre

See, the thing is, I, and maybe people like me, am actually interested in the answers to questions like these. So if a few of you blokes would stop acting like bulls in a paddock, we could learn something from the experience you've earned.
I've got enough time at sea on other vessel types to understand the concepts involved, but knowing where to draw the safety line is harder, especially when I've got a family on board. And yes, I'm sailing conservatively.
Truce anyone?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Good he did not loose his keel yet, or worse hit something ;-)

Sorry couldn't resist...

Cats have not problems with hitting objects? this one capsized after hitting a whale!!!

A Tale of Survival After Whale Hits Catamaran

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Never heard anyone flip as a result of a warm Comfy wheel house, does that happen alot in Australia? As for the cw in traverse bay, a lot of speculation on what really went down and why and no proof.

While a comfy wheel house may not be a direct cause, I think the related comfy complacency can certainly contribute. Read the account of the capsize of Ana. The owner describes the weather developing around him...the wind clocking and building...a big gust is clearly eminent, he had plenty of warning signs, but yet he did precisely nothing when action was clearly required. Complacency or cluelessness?

Reading the account gives me the impression the owner really didn't know any better. Maybe Chris needs to instituite a policy of mandatory owner/captain training for his boats, including weather training. Given the 7 figure purchase price, it would be a small additional expense. I think they could benefit from some time sailing performance beach cats in unsettled weather and learning how to prevent a capsize.

Chris did respond with an analysis of the capsize of Ana. Good response I thought, he just stuck to the facts and ran the numbers: by his calcs 64 knots is the windspeed required for capsize with a single reef in place, owner's account of windspeed was more like 74 knots.

Of course, microbursts can happen in seconds and surprise even the best of crews, but normally they happen in the presence of unsettled weather. Cats, particularly aggressive performance cruisers like CWs, should be sailed conservatively and very attentively in unsettled weather. The old adage of "Reef early, reef deep" is nowhere more applicable. Even on non-performance cats, I dont like to be far from the mainsheet in unsettled weather. If its getting really interesting, I have it prepped to run free and in my hand.

[Franziska]

Of course you can hit something with a multi and it's usually nasty, but at least you stay ON TOP of things most of the time, jiggle.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Here is a performance mono on autopilot--no capsize worries.

Alex Thomson Racing – Sail Survive Succeed

why no capsize worries ? Watched that movie - french - race around the world in monos - and mono like this capsized.

just a movie i guess.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

...

Does one hand hold the sheet tails? Does one come out of the hermetically sealed cabin and experience the elements and feel the first cool breath of an approaching down draft?

Does one stand by the wheel ready to bear off in that first big puff?

Well if the answer is yes then how on earth does one accomplish this with very small crew. A couple would effectively be taking turns to single hand a 57 footer standing in the elements , highly alert for 24 hours a day.

So the reality is then to be safe you reef right down and slop around going no where fast, or crank up the donks and motor.

The whole concept of a large performance cruising sailing catamaran for a couple then appears totally bizarre

Yes, to all the Qs above.

Fortunately, unsettled weather is usually of shorter duration, but yes...constant attentiveness is required on performance multis (cat or tri).

This is certainly a consideration for a cruising couple on a performance multi. Taking on experienced crew for longer runs would be prudent.

Even larger non performance multis could be a real handful for the typical aging cruising couple in heavy weather due to the the huge loads. Many have undersized winches which are not easily up to the task of handling the loads on a big cat should their electric drives fail. I think even a big (50' and up) non performance cat is a questionable decision for the typical aging cruising couple. Geez, who needs that kind of space anyway...Ive run charters on these beasts with up to a dozen guests (depending on boat...65' cat for that) and everyone is comfy.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

why no capsize worries ? Watched that movie - french - race around the world in monos - and mono like this capsized.

just a movie i guess.

There was problems with capsizes on the vendee globe till they modified the boats (more than a decade ago) to be able to return themselves form a capsized position without outside help, not even the help of waves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c198l8lBgI

Now they will only stay capsized if they will lose the keel (or the ballast) and that had already happened due to violent shocks at speed with objects (whales?).

It is also true that most of the boats that lost the keel and ballast where able to made it home sailing, even without the keel and one of them, that lost the keel on the Southern waters of Brazil keep racing without a keel and even so arrived between the first (great sailing).

[peter57]

Originally Posted by tp12

There will always be idiots that gloat when a catamaran capsizes and use it to confirm their bias but the reality is the quoted post here by Franziska is right on the money.

If you're going to buy the latest 1299 Ducati Superlegerra you better know that the throttle goes both ways. Some people get that, some people don't. If you don't, don't buy one

I'd love one of these myself.

How would the Duke handle the jumps on a Moto Cross track? Throttle response not going to help much. But love to give it a slight thrashing on tar sealed road or track.

Cheers, nice bike.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by reed1v

According to all the multi hull fans on these boards, such a thing can not happen; thus it did not happen.

Originally Posted by Franziska

Good he did not loose his keel yet, or worse hit something ;-)

Sorry couldn't resist...

Come on folks, lets not start these tired old mono vs multi squabbles. The pros and cons of each are well understood.