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Old 19-06-2014, 01:30   #16
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Re: Asking too Much?

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
so they locked up the boat, hired a broker and left for Switzerland to take over the family's bank.

<snip>

The broker finally called teh couple and asked them what they wanted him to do, and they were shocked the boat was still sitting there. They told him to take any offer, no matter how low, just sell it.
Key sentence - family bank?

"How much money do ya got?"

"So much money I forgot I had a $165k boat sitting in Hawaii."

Knowledge is power. What if your buddy knew that then?

And also this is why I would "insist" that the broker present my offer no matter how ridiculous. He has a responsibility to do so. Were I your buddy I would have chased him for a confirmation that he presented the offer.
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Old 19-06-2014, 02:05   #17
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Re: Asking too Much?

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I do take offense at low-ball offers. When they are way below the asking price, like 1/3, you are essentially implying that the seller might be desperate to sell it so cheap,
or is a fool for asking 3 times more than it is worth. Either one is insulting.
It is really just wasting my time to offer 1/3 the price, or worse when people try to justify it explaining to me why I'm a fool.

If their asking price is out-of-line, just wait for them to lower their asking price, they will eventually if they really want to sell it, otherwise they don't really want to sell it,
and realize that once the price is low, there are MANY that will buy it, not just you!
How's it offensive? I agree with the guy that says a simple "no thank you" will work. Do you have a boat for sale? I've got 20$ on it
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Old 19-06-2014, 02:19   #18
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Re: Asking too Much?

Regardless boat,car ,caravan, house ,kayak or whatever I never feel embarrassed nor has anyone been offended by what I consider to be the price I would like to pay even if its half of what is asked.Also as someone else has mentioned I have forced brokers or agents to formalise offers they thought were too low and have been successful on many occasions with both houses and boats but I rarely buy anything substantial with my heart as opposed to my wallet in mind.
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Old 19-06-2014, 02:26   #19
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Re: Asking too Much?

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Originally Posted by montenido View Post
...(I) offended the seller so much that he would not counter offer....
Actually if someone makes a lowball offer on something I am selling, I will rarely come back with a counter offer. I have had agents even tell me "you must make a counter offer", but if it's outside the ballpark I stand firm.

But that certainly doesn't mean I'm offended. I just want them to make an offer that is closer to what I expect before we get into the negotiation process. Who would read into it that I am offended?
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Old 19-06-2014, 02:28   #20
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Re: Asking too Much?

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Key sentence - family bank?

"How much money do ya got?"

"So much money I forgot I had a $165k boat sitting in Hawaii."

Knowledge is power. What if your buddy knew that then?

And also this is why I would "insist" that the broker present my offer no matter how ridiculous. He has a responsibility to do so. Were I your buddy I would have chased him for a confirmation that he presented the offer.
Yeah, I'd love to have so much money I forgot about a boat that expensive!

I really don't know any more details about the offers, the broker, etc. I guess my buddy just assumed that the original offer had been submitted and rejected. He was quite happy to have finally gotten it for $60K, I kinda think even if he knew they would take less, he'd still have offered the same, he was very honorable, old school.
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Old 19-06-2014, 02:34   #21
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Re: Asking too Much?

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Originally Posted by Wanderlust View Post
Actually if someone makes a lowball offer on something I am selling, I will rarely come back with a counter offer. I have had agents even tell me "you must make a counter offer", but if it's outside the ballpark I stand firm.

But that certainly doesn't mean I'm offended. I just want them to make an offer that is closer to what I expect before we get into the negotiation process. Who would read into it that I am offended?
Id say if you just dont respond i wouldnt take that as you were offended. Pretty much as long as you dont shake a stick and yell cheapskate. xD
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Old 19-06-2014, 02:41   #22
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Re: Asking too Much?

I think there is a difference between someone taking a chance on a really low offer in the hope a seller will let it go and someone who wants the vessel but sees costs ahead and knows the market well.

I will always tell a seller WHY I am offering my price. It is usually a firm offer and subject to being raised if he or she addresses some of the issues I have pointed out. I dont want to do the work or make expensive purchases etc so if they want to fix it to my satisfaction, I will pay more.

One boat I wanted to buy in the States, had a worn engine. I took the cost of a new install off the price for my offer and some more for other work required. It wasnt that the boat was overpriced in the market to start with, it just became overpriced because of this stuff that would need fixing.

Well we chatted a bit, and he said to come back in a week as he was going on a trip. When I came back, he had fitted a new engine, replaced everything that I mentioned and had the boat valeted. I gave him the full asking price.

I asked him why he went to the trouble of doing it. His answer was interesting. He said that my offer was fair and only included the ACTUAL costs of having what needed doing, and he felt obligated to sell a good working boat whether I bought it or not.
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Old 19-06-2014, 03:09   #23
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Re: Asking too Much?

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I asked him why he went to the trouble of doing it. His answer was interesting. He said that my offer was fair and only included the ACTUAL costs of having what needed doing, and he felt obligated to sell a good working boat whether I bought it or not.
I love buying from "these" guys - They are characterized by having great stuff that is well maintained. They pay top dollar for stuff and sell their stuff for top dollar. They are rarely out to scam you. If you point out something wrong, they usually didn't know about it or hadn't considered it and they happily fix it.

I am lazy - If you pointed out the engine on a 40 foot boat and suggested I knock 8 grand off, I would rather do that than spend my time energy and emotions on a boat I am selling. We'd both still be happy but you get to take care of it.

I can tell who these guys are and never try to lowball them as I am confident I am getting what I paid for. They wouldn't hide spongy decks, osmosis or any other BS. In fact one guy gave me a list of all the stuff wrong with his boat - LOL...

OTOH - These guys can get out of touch with the market and if the market really reset by -30% I'd have to show him the comparable listings and offer lower. Yes the market may come back but I am buying present value not future value.

I had a guy who worked for me. He had another quirk. When he retired he said, "I gotta figure out what to do with the cars..."

Well this guy had basically every car he ever bought in storage - He bought a new car every 5 years or so. If he could not get "purchase price" he wouldn't sell it. Never traded one in either. He'd say stuff like, "Well I paid $26,000 for it and some guy offered me $13,000. That's crazy!"

Weird guy... Although his cars were in perfect shape - LOL...
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Old 19-06-2014, 03:12   #24
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Asking too Much?

Friend tells me about this land he owns on the towns Main street. Says it is perfect for fast food etc. Says in 2007,, he was this close to closing for 1.8 million. The deal fell apart at the last day etc.

I looked at the property with some other friends. The curve and slope of the hill that this is at the bottom of,, makes this a death trap. That or spend plenty moving alot of dirt. He has held this land since 1970 with one offer.

He is still holding on saying it is worth more than 1.8,, now that more time has past

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Old 19-06-2014, 03:23   #25
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Smile Re: Asking too Much?

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I do take offense at low-ball offers. When they are way below the asking price, like 1/3, you are essentially implying that the seller might be desperate to sell it so cheap,
or is a fool for asking 3 times more than it is worth. Either one is insulting.
It is really just wasting my time to offer 1/3 the price, or worse when people try to justify it explaining to me why I'm a fool.

If their asking price is out-of-line, just wait for them to lower their asking price, they will eventually if they really want to sell it, otherwise they don't really want to sell it,
and realize that once the price is low, there are MANY that will buy it, not just you!
When we bought our most recent sailboat at 40%less then the asking price and the owner leapt at the offer because there are NOT many that will buy out there...its a buyers market and unless you are buying from a friend or family member save your hard earned money and start low. My husband was worried about insulting the owners(our broker was too) but they accepted our offer right away...and we had been the only people to look at the boat in the 3 months was on the market. So in the same situation I guess you would have paid full price ?! And the boat a lovely 38 foot ketch even has a small bathtub in it!! Btw I did the same thing when buying our house (low-balled) and the people acted very insulted but then when we didn't counter offer they changed their tune...yes I'm cheap but I'm also going to be retired in less then 2.5 years at age 46 and sailing around the world because of this.
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Old 19-06-2014, 03:32   #26
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Re: Asking too Much?

Here's my experience in boat buying and selling. Yes there are always the "stories" of the boat deal that was a steal and I'm sure from time to time it happens but I'm also sure its a rare occasion.
Reality is that finding real nice, older used boats for sale is almost as rare based on my experience. If you can find one that has been well cared for and updated and is reasonably priced that in itself is almost a win.

In selling a boat my experience is that if your boat is well looked after, has a bit of a following and reasonably well equipped you can expect to get market and should not have to give it away because as I previously mentioned its going to attract attention because there are not that many around. Of course the key here is market!
I spent months tracking boat sales and even got access to soldboats which is a site normally only open to brokers so I had a pretty good idea of what market was when I went shopping. If you don't have good selling price data then you don't have good data on market values and if you don't have that then you are just going on gut as to what you believe market prices are.
If I'm selling anything I make damn sure I know what the market price is and if someone low balls me I either do not respond or I respond with full price. No emotions involved but I often run into people who have not done their homework when they are trying to buy something.
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Old 19-06-2014, 07:44   #27
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Re: Asking too Much?

It's kind of like your daughter's boyfriend telling you she's a little plump but he really loves her. It no longer matters that he's otherwise a great guy, good career prospects, treats her real good, she clearly loves him, etc. He just called your daughter fat and everything else is irrelevant.

Likewise a lot of people tie up thier ultimate dream in a boat and pointing out it's flaws puts them on the defensive. They are not professional boat brokers, who objectively place a value on an object.

I don't like to get into pointing out flaws. I look the boat over, decide what I'm willing to offer and then give them an out, such as:

"I really like the boat but we only have $xx,xxx set aside to purchase a boat."

Both big boats we bought, they jumped at a low ball bid. If it's too low, they can commiserate a bit but not feel offended because you started out complementing thier baby. If it's close, they can counter offer. Or if you left them with warm fuzzy feelings towards you, they may come back in a couple months and give you a story about how they want thier baby to go to a good home when it's really the ongoing costs that are driving them to cut the cost.

The buyer holds the power. You can always go look at the next boat and there will be more coming on the market. The seller has that one boat and has to keep paying for the upkeep.
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Old 19-06-2014, 08:40   #28
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Re: Asking too Much?

This is happening in US Real Estate as well. Folks feel we are 'coming out' of it, and they now want higher prices, when in actuality only certain areas or certain types of houses are commanding higher prices. It doesn't help when the public doesn't understand the news. "Median house prices are up 20% from last year". This doesn't mean that YOUR house is now worth 20% more. It just means that alot of REALLY CHEAP houses were sold last year, and this year they are off the market so the MEDIAN price rises... Gesh.....

Fatty Goodlander has a book called "Buy Outfit and Sail". In it he describes how to be-friend a seller so they aren't so upset. This is good advice, and 'generally' works well in real estate also. Better to sympathize with the seller, tell them you'd love to pay the higher price but just can't afford it, and you'll have to look elsewhere for your dream boat. You'd love to make his dream your dream, if only times were better and you could afford it.

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Old 19-06-2014, 09:28   #29
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Re: Asking too Much?

When last year we suddenly fell into a boat deal we ended up with two. Now the First is for sale. Our friend and broker of 20 years called us his worst client because we only bought one boat in all those years. We had no idea what the First was worth but he said we should get 50k Euro & listed her for 55. Our research showed that was at the higher end of those available but was obviously the best by far. After six months (during the winter) we dropped the price to 47,500 euro. That is almost the middle of the pricing on yacht world. To date there has not been a single inquiry. Nothing. Nada. Our friend/broker says he is "gob smacked" she hasn't been snatched up. He says the market is dead. No one is buying, or even kicking tires (so to speak). The Germans are not shopping, & the Spanish are broke. The only movement he is seeing is with the French. We would be happy to entertain an offer. Hell, we'd be happy if someone showed some interest!

So pricing is likely a factor, but I believe there is something odd going on with the economy too. Why is no one even shopping (apart from Weavis that is)?
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Old 19-06-2014, 10:06   #30
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Re: Asking too Much?

Buying any asset that someone was attached to can be interesting.

In the past year and a half I bought a number of items in Florida; a condo, a motorhome and a sailboat.
  • The condo I bought at 18% off list price, which was already reasonable. The situation was that it was owned by a fellow from Michigan, and no one in his family had used it for 8 years. Dated, but clean and nothing needed to be done. The identical one just sold for 50% more than I paid for mine... I got mine at a very good price, and the timing was fortuitously right; the market improved.
  • The motorhome I bought at 36% off asking. Situation was a owner needed to sell, I made a reasonable offer subject to inspection, and it needed some work. The cost of repairs were deducted, the previous owner accepted, I did the work, drove it to Canada, and sold it in a hot market at a good profit.
  • The sailboat the previous owner had got a good deal on, owned it for 5 years, was anal about maintenance on the parts that mattered, put it up for a good price, I ended up getting it at 14% off the asking.

So what was common in all of these deals?

All the owners wanted/needed to sell for various reasons. All were asking reasonable prices in the first place. In all cases, I looked very hard at numerous other items, knew the market, and know how to sniff out a good deal. My offers were always backed by reasonable explanations of why they were at the level I made, and I always attempted to establish a rapport with the seller before I made an offer... that way it was not perceived as an insult.

The sailboats were the most frustrating. It is a truism that people get emotionally attached to the boats, and before I looked at them I would test the owner's preponderance to be amenable to offers. It saved me a lot of gas and mileage not looking at some boats. Many of those I still see for sale.

There's an old saying about vehicles and boats: "They are not like whiskey, they don't get better with age". Some owners don't understand that.

It works for me, YMMV.
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