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Old 13-08-2009, 03:52   #46
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My approach

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So my question is, do you do your hard bargaining upfront, or bargain a bit and plan to play hardball after the survey...
Based on input from others (much of it this forum), my approach has been "hard upfront". If they choose to take the "as is - where is," I know that going in and can decide if the number is too high even if the survey finds nothing significant.

Post survey, a bunch of small items, will be harder to negotiate on, because we should have seen the trim was marred or the floor was stained. That is what I negotiated my initial price around. Large ticket items are always negotiable. If the survey found the engine needed $5000 worth of work we both have something to lose - the buyer more money, the seller a sale. The system is setup to renegotiate.
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Old 14-08-2009, 06:08   #47
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So my question is, do you do your hard bargaining upfront, or bargain a bit and plan to play hardball after the survey.
Mark
My experience is a "face to face" contact with the seller is very important. If you look carefully you can see if he/she is desparate to sell. Simultaneously you can start your hard bargaining.

Of course if you live far away from the location of the owner, it is not very easy to travel.

Statistics tell the story. I was reading a publication of Lagoon the other day. Since the company was sold to Beneteau, 1.500 cats have been produced in total. (end of 2007 figures) Only in Yachtworld there are 265 Lagoons for sale at the moment. If we consider the other web-sites, I would say world wide %15-20 of the Lagoons produced are for sale.

Thats a lot of used cats to choose from. I quess other brands are not that different. So if one owner insists of higher prices, never mind, there are many other cats you can consider.
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Old 14-08-2009, 07:56   #48
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Statistics tell the story. I was reading a publication of Lagoon the other day. Since the company was sold to Beneteau, 1.500 cats have been produced in total. (end of 2007 figures) Only in Yachtworld there are 265 Lagoons for sale at the moment. If we consider the other web-sites, I would say world wide %15-20 of the Lagoons produced are for sale.
Great Point!!
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Old 20-08-2009, 16:40   #49
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From Soundings Trade Only

For the first time this year, more brokerage boats were sold in a one-month period than in the same one-month period a year earlier. As reported to SoldBoats.com by the member brokers of YachtWorld.com, unit sales increased to 3,182 boats in the United States during June-10.5 percent more than the 2,879 boats sold in June '08.

The split between powerboat and sailboat sales we discussed last month has continued. If only power were considered, unit sales made dramatic gains in June, from 2,245 to 2,630. By contrast, sailboat sales declined from 625 boats sold to 552.

If we review the data reporting sales by length of boat, one reason for this variation comes to light. June '09 shows a sharp increase in sales of boats under 36 feet, including higher total valuations.

Leading this trend is the region for which we provide a snapshot this month, the Mid-Atlantic, an area that currently accounts for 18 percent of the boats sold nationwide. We looked at boat sales from Delaware to Georgia and found a 15-percent increase in unit sales, comparing June '09 with June '08. And year to date, the region is down only 5 percent in unit sales. Power, in particular, is up strongly in the Mid-Atlantic, with 454 boats sold in June '09 versus 356 sold a year earlier. And year to date, brokers in the region have sold 1,937 powerboats against 1,847, a year ago.

As with the national trend, the Mid-Atlantic's recovery is powered largely by sales of powerboats under 26 feet. As you might expect, the total valuation of boat sales isn't as high, proportionately: year to date, valuations of all boats sold are off by a third and sailboat sales only are down by a third in units and roughly 40 percent in value.

This article originally appeared in the August 2009 issue.
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Old 22-08-2009, 05:54   #50
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Interesting info, but where are the catamaran figures? Are used Cat prices trending down with the rest of the market, or are they bucking the trend?

Are newer used cats dropping in price faster? Are older cats holding their value? Where can we find this type of info?
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Old 23-08-2009, 12:03   #51
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Yachtworld probably could filter that down, but doesn't. I'm going to get active again next spring so I'll see at that time. "Want" vs "Need" purchases are going to be substantually lower for the forseeable future, IMO.
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Old 28-08-2009, 14:27   #52
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buying a boat in US, do you have to use a broker/agent ?
and thanks for all nice info from you all.
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Old 28-08-2009, 15:04   #53
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I will be looking to buy my boat in late spring 2010. I've watched as the price of my brand of boat dropped in price again recently and am getting really excited, but terrified at the same time that the economy will recover, boat prices will soar faster than I can save (which was what happened to me during the housing boom in the DC area) and once again i miss the boat so to speak. Of course I don't wish anyone to suffer and I would like to see the economy recover; however,I find myself praying that it doesn't happen until I buy. Wow! That sounds pretty selfish now that I see my thoughts in writing.
The question I have is; how quickly do boat prices recover after a recession? And do the prices rise rapidly? Do you think that prices will rise or keep dropping before spring/summer?
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Old 28-08-2009, 15:14   #54
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buying a boat in US, do you have to use a broker/agent ?
and thanks for all nice info from you all.
Nope. Not required but they may help in areas that you may not be comfortable dealing in ie contracts etc.

John
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Old 28-08-2009, 18:06   #55
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I will be looking to buy my boat in late spring 2010. I've watched as the price of my brand of boat dropped in price again recently and am getting really excited, but terrified at the same time that the economy will recover, boat prices will soar faster than I can save (which was what happened to me during the housing boom in the DC area) and once again i miss the boat so to speak. Of course I don't wish anyone to suffer and I would like to see the economy recover; however,I find myself praying that it doesn't happen until I buy. Wow! That sounds pretty selfish now that I see my thoughts in writing.
The question I have is; how quickly do boat prices recover after a recession? And do the prices rise rapidly? Do you think that prices will rise or keep dropping before spring/summer?
I' am more or less in the same situation, but i'm not worried. A boat is not an apartment neither gold.
I dodn't think that in the next years people will get so wealthy to encrease boat pricing. IMHO
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Old 29-08-2009, 12:41   #56
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buying a boat in US, do you have to use a broker/agent ?
and thanks for all nice info from you all.
Not that you have to, but I highly reccommend using one. It costs you nothing, an experienced broker should have a feel for what you want/need (not always the same) and can guide you through many of the pitfalls a new buyer may encounter. I talked to several before settling with the one I liked, and stuck with him, and told him that when I buy it will be through him. That develops a loyalty from the broker, knowing he will eventually be getting a commission. He gave me honest opinions on each boat and was not worried about pushing me for a sale.
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Old 29-08-2009, 21:45   #57
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Fullsail, who did you use?
There isn't a dedicated thread to fp bahia's. Any interest in starting one?
I'm interested in how your cruising is going. David.
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Old 30-08-2009, 10:15   #58
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Fullsail, who did you use?
There isn't a dedicated thread to fp bahia's. Any interest in starting one?
I'm interested in how your cruising is going. David.

I think the reason there is no dedicated thread is because most Bahia's are still in charter. There are a few privately owned, but I haven't found many owners wanting to talk...or maybe they are all out sailing.

John Anderson was my broker. He just left catamaran company but has his own website now. Catamarans, for sale, power and sailing yachts, new & used, John Anderson, Yacht Broker. I'd reccommend him.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:14   #59
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OK here's my data point in the discussion.
April 2009, five years of sailing time, 40 foot Catamaran, Single owner, minimal charter use, I'd been over it with a fine tooth comb before I made my offers,
Asking Price: $248K (all in USD)
Previously agreed selling price that fell through: $223K
My first offer: $198K
Agreed pre-survey & pre-sea trial: $210K
Loved the sea trial in 38 knots of breeze.
Some small things found in the survey.
Agreed final: $203.5K
I was offering cash.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:17   #60
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Great post Olorin. We need more hard numbers like that. It helps everyone.
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