asking price VS realistic price.

[sailorboy1]

It the seller and broker aren't idiots and really want to sell a boat

the asking price = the realistic price

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by mutant

THAT is really a good advice. Is there other places than FB (I have already subscribed to a couple FB groups)
On CF I have to filter out a few things that is irrelevant to me...

Yes, but you have to do some research. As I mentioned, there are internet formats that simply do not work as well as others for certain types of activity.

The more useful types are searchable. Forums, like this one are good, and Ericson and many Catalina Associations have them. [Some disparage the search feature on this forum, but the built-in Google search format is superior and folks have been recommending its use instead for years here. Using the site: search format on others works, too.] Some have wikis which "capture" good articles. Some have also "captured published material, like the Catalina Mainsheet quarterly magazine, and save old ones as scanned pdfs and new material as html and doc files. Being able to save pictures and making it easy to post pictures rather than needing a flickr account link are superior.

My experience is that FB is useless for this purpose, because that's NOT what it was designed for. While Yahoo and Google groups can do some of this, it is also not as good for finding material and archiving good stuff.

Blogs are another source, although usually only a single owner's experience, while some are very, very good providing numerous links to other sites with superb information. That's also part of not reinventing the wheel.

Good examples are
Catalina 34 International Association
Association Forum - Catalina 25 Specific Forum
EY.o Information Exchange - The Front Page
https://svsmitty.wordpress.com/

The Catalina 22 has been in production so long that there are not only owners association sources, but individuals have developed their own websites. Same for the C30.

Having everything in one place is helpful, too. Some have multiple places to look. We discouraged some from starting a FB page for our boats, which would have diluted our treasure trove of info onto another platform. Made no sense to us.

I am, of course, more familiar with Catalinas than others.

But this topic is about buying a boat, not a website. I mentioned this as something that would support the purchase of a particular boat, not be a determinant for that choice.

It would, however, be very helpful in learning about any particular boat while you're shopping.

How often have we read this? "I'm looking at XYZ boat. What should I look for?"

In my particular case, the website offered these two articles:
Home Page BrochuresÂ* Contribute Cool stuff Database FAQ Fleets For saleÂ* GalleryÂ*Â* History JOIN Links Mailing List Manuals Message
Home Page BrochuresÂ* Contribute Cool stuff Database FAQ Fleets For saleÂ* GalleryÂ*Â* History JOIN Links Mailing List Manuals Message

In most cases, the answer to that question would invariably be: chainplates, tankage, engine

But there are other details that are boat-specific that only a good site could offer in terms of solutions and enhancements.

Happy hunting.

[letsgetsailing3]

It's like that sign on Sanford and Son:

"We buy junk. We sell antiques."

Some of the same people who will drive you to the bottom dollar when buying, think their boats are worth 25% more when selling.

To some degree, I suppose, it's their job.

I often get the impression sellers are looking what other boats are advertising for, instead of what they're actually getting when they actually sell their boat.

How long should a boat stay on the market? A year? And in that year, is that boat decaying, so it's worth even less? Because the owner isn't putting more "long term" money into the boat at that point.

How many times do you look at a boat with new rigging or sails that are 5 years old? Or a "new" bottom job that's three years old?

It's as if people remember every penny they ever put into that boat. And most people love their boats - they're pricing it like it's a precious object, even if they're not maintaining it as such.

When someone really wants to sell a boat, it's obvious. The price suddenly becomes more reasonable, or flexible.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Our asking price IS the realistic price. On ebay or on yachtworld.

I wonder why it has not sold then? Oysters have a good following and reputation, other Oysters have sold... why not yours?

Jim

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I wonder why it has not sold then? Oysters have a good following and reputation, other Oysters have sold... why not yours?

Jim

I have only recently turned my attention to monohulls, but what I am seeing is that a lot of the older (even high quality ones) are not selling that fast.


From my research it seems that the older Monohulls are not a massively in demand item any more, especially with the growing popularity of catamarans, along with some newer monohulls which have come onto the market in the last 10 years which are considerably cheaper and offer similar space and luxury, albeit not the quality.



I have been looking at the Moody 54 and talking to a few brokers as well as a previous owner who sold one recently. There are more than 10 available in Europe with one being for sale for 4 years and a few more being for sale for a couple of years.


The one that did sell recently went for 90,000 Euro less than the average price of the ones still for sale - If the price is right it will sell, but what many sellers and brokers seem to do is check what everything else is listed for and then stick 20K on it or 20K under it depending on the condition of the boat.


With the world teetering on a recession as well as for Monos it is definitely a buyers market, sellers and brokers need to adjust their idea of pricing - If it hasn't sold in a year then its probably over priced.

[axiomoixa]

Originally Posted by Nahbrown

I can only give you our experience as an example.



The seller was asking 399k usd. We offered 325. The survey revealed there was a lot to be done to the boat such as replacing the SD 50 sail drives. We asked for 32,000 of sellers money at closing. He agreed to this effectively making the price 293,000.



My takeaway, make your offer, give the seller the option to say yes or no. Offending a seller is overstated in my opinion. Its a business transaction.

Did you make offer after seeing the yacht? or you made the viewing only after the seller had agreed to your offered price?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Our asking price IS the realistic price. On ebay or on yachtworld.

Your asking price is exactly that, asking. An offering price is just that, an offer. The final agreed to price if you both can come to an agreement is the fair market price. If there's no final agreement then it is just pissing in the wind.

[mutant]

Originally Posted by Nahbrown

I can only give you our experience as an example.

The seller was asking 399k usd. We offered 325. The survey revealed there was a lot to be done to the boat such as replacing the SD 50 sail drives. We asked for 32,000 of sellers money at closing. He agreed to this effectively making the price 293,000.

My takeaway, make your offer, give the seller the option to say yes or no. Offending a seller is overstated in my opinion. Its a business transaction.

Almost 400 to 293k ??!! That is over 25% .... I am maybe naive. But that sounds like you as a buyer should be offended. That makes this even harder to browse online for the perfect" boat. knowledge is power .

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by UFO

I have only recently turned my attention to monohulls, but what I am seeing is that a lot of the older (even high quality ones) are not selling that fast.


From my research it seems that the older Monohulls are not a massively in demand item any more, especially with the growing popularity of catamarans, along with some newer monohulls which have come onto the market in the last 10 years which are considerably cheaper and offer similar space and luxury, albeit not the quality.



I have been looking at the Moody 54 and talking to a few brokers as well as a previous owner who sold one recently. There are more than 10 available in Europe with one being for sale for 4 years and a few more being for sale for a couple of years.


The one that did sell recently went for 90,000 Euro less than the average price of the ones still for sale - If the price is right it will sell, but what many sellers and brokers seem to do is check what everything else is listed for and then stick 20K on it or 20K under it depending on the condition of the boat.


With the world teetering on a recession as well as for Monos it is definitely a buyers market, sellers and brokers need to adjust their idea of pricing - If it hasn't sold in a year then its probably over priced.

That's what I'm thinking as well.


The people who are in the market now want the cats, and some of the higher-priced monohulls sit on the market.

[mutant]

Now, a lot of my questions will be answered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wq0mYJLmgc

[comesatime]

Does anyone have direct knowledge of how accurate “soldboat” data is?

I would think sales price is greatly overstated on average.

Unlike USA home sales prices which are accurate due to government property tax regulations, I can only think of incentives to inflate sold boat data and no consequences for lieing.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I wonder why it has not sold then? Oysters have a good following and reputation, other Oysters have sold... why not yours?

Jim

Originally Posted by Paul L

Your asking price is exactly that, asking. An offering price is just that, an offer. The final agreed to price if you both can come to an agreement is the fair market price. If there's no final agreement then it is just pissing in the wind.

I’m presently cruising the Med for four months and currently enjoying Greece on a well-equipped, self contained Oyster 53 with new DYS sails.

The three people who offered ridiculous low prices.... aren’t.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I’m presently cruising the Med for four months and currently enjoying Greece on a well-equipped, self contained Oyster 53 with new DYS sails.

The three people who offered ridiculous low prices.... aren’t.

Which means there was no transaction, so you haven't arrived at the true market price. If the seller or the buyer is not motivated to make the sale, it ain't gonna happen.
If your price and method of marketing was right, the boat would not be on the market for 6 months. 6 months has carrying costs.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by UFO

If it hasn't sold in a year then its probably over priced.

I’d say you can make that statement for pretty much anything from horses to diamonds and be pretty accurate.

However for whatever reason, high end big houses and seemingly anything like that has become difficult to sell, maybe people that can afford that kind of thing want new, or maybe it’s lost attraction, or maybe people can’t afford that kind of thing I don’t know.
But I’d say that at least some of the high end boat buyers do so for prestige, and now that’s a big Cat, not a mono, or so it seems.
Maybe in a few years it will be a power boat, or an airplane, who knows?

[TrentePieds]

Mutant:

I wonder why you would give ANY credence to the clip you posted? But perhaps your comment was meant sardonically :-)?

Determining the listing price for a boat is in many ways different from determining the listing price for real estate. The fact that many boat brokers seek to EMULATE real estate practices should not be permitted to lead you astray. The statistics boat brokers have to work with are not NEARLY as reliable as those that obtain in the real estate market. As someone said, that has to do with the way RE is taxed, and it also has to do with how title to RE is recorded ("tinglyst" I imagine you say in Swedish)

We are also seing a separation of the "total" market into a market for monohulls and a market for catamarans. In the former the prices are falling quite drastically due to changes in taste, generally, resulting in an "oversupply" subject to considerable seasonal variation, but also due to the increase in prices in the RE market being driven ever higher by demographics (incease in demand outstripping supply due, essentially, to overpopulation of man's ecological niche). This permits retirees to "cash in" on their shoreside dwellings and acquire "retirement boats". But because few of these people are really sailors, they tend to opt for "seagoing condos", i.e. catamarans. And, of course, for the retiring wives (who make the ultimate decision), catamarans don't have that realy, realy scary propensity to heel as soon as you cast off ;-) In consequence catamarans hold their prices better than monohulls at this juncture. But the demand for catamarans is fashion-driven, so this, too, shall pass.

The best I can suggest for you, since you are still "three years out", so you say, is that you establish YOUR OWN database of listing prices derived from actual advertisements you find on HolyMotherNet, and from conversations with sellers and their brokers in your own neckathewoods.

IMO to bid more than 60% of listing price for a "pre-owned" boat is to kick sand in the face of financial fortune or, if you are into oriental philosophy, in the face of Lakshmi :-)

The clip you gave us is, IMO, amusing, and can be safely disregarded.

Held og lykke med dit køb når det kommer :-)

TrentePieds