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Old 06-04-2008, 13:16   #61
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Originally Posted by dcstrng View Post





Few minor questions: (1) is there a length where tris (more appealing to my eye) are preferable to cats (or is that just an esthetic issue… and (2) for the backyard, do it yourselfer, are their current or past designers whose work passes muster under modern standards for multi-hull integrity (I like the look of the Constant Camber tris, but they seem to have been from an earlier era…), and (3) from a technical stand-point; what is the lower length limit for a multi other than load-carrying and general semblance of comfort (at least in monos, over several decades I’ve gravitated down to the less-is-more school; not altogether championed my many, but still my preference having had all the fun I care for with the maintenance on the larger, more generally accepted, boats..).

Thanks
For a trimaran about 30 feet seems to be the point that separates boats suitable for serious offshore sailing from a stability standpoint. You still have the payload issue in these smaller boats so you will have to be a minimalist. Around 34 feet the tri will start to become big enough for comfortable cruising and liveaboard. I may be a little "old school" but I prefer the older Searunner, Cross, or the somewhat newer Simpson and Marples designes for serious cruising and liveaboard. If properly built they have no problem with structural integrity. My reasons are the solid wingdeck(dryer under sail and wonderful at anchor), 100 to 150 % displacement amas (more comfortable ride especially to windward), room to store stuff with their deep bilges, storage areas and wingdeck lockers, and affordablity.
No doubt the newer designs have a performance edge and more modern building and materials technology. My only real question about these newer boats is where do you put stuff. They seem to have pretty good payload specs but with their shallow or non-existent bilge compartments where does it all go. Are you forced to spread it all over the boat?
I think either type would be a good cruiser it just depends on your style and desires.

Another armchair cruiser (cheap plastic deck chair, probably not as comfortable as Rick's)
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Old 06-04-2008, 15:27   #62
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The Polynesians settled the Pacific Ocean using catamarans. Monohulls only came much later with the white man.
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Old 06-04-2008, 15:36   #63
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Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
Don - I strongly suggest you not get a cat, do not take it out of sight of land, and whatever you do, do not take it to high latitudes.

Dave

2Hulls....I have always liked that picture of your boat next to that chunk of ice. It really speaks for itself regarding the capability of catamarans.
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Old 06-04-2008, 17:39   #64
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There are probably still people saying "I'll never fly in anything that doesn't have a good solid propellor on the front!"
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Old 06-04-2008, 18:01   #65
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There are probably still people saying "I'll never fly in anything that doesn't have a good solid propellor on the front!"

Why is it that we have to do this every couple of weeks or so? You'd think there was enough written on this subject right here in the forum to keep anyone awake nights reading.
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Old 06-04-2008, 18:38   #66
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<I think either type would be a good cruiser it just depends on your style and desires…>

Thanks for your clarifications… For whatever reason, Marple’s designs generally appeal to my eye… esthetics look less threatening to me than some of the more alien spaceship looking designs – but that’s coming from someone who thinks one of the most pleasing designs to the eye is a Bristol Channel Cutter, so take it with a grain of salt…

I’ve spent the past few days trying to tear apart John Shuttleworth’s seaworthiness calculations… am not a high-level mathematician, but am content he’s done a pretty good job of capturing the stability formulas… of course that still doesn’t answer the question of whether one design or another adheres to what modern science can offer…

Did find his general statement interesting: “When you combine the action of wind and waves, a catamaran is more vulnerable than a tri, because when a boat is sailing the heaving action of the wave on the windward hull imparts rolling momentum to the boat, reducing the energy reserve left under the righting moment… Cats are more vulnerable than tris because in general the static stability of the cat is less than an equivalent tri. This is the main reason that tris are considered to be safer for short handed racing - they can be sailed harder in waves with a greater margin of safety…” Hmmmm...

Nonetheless, reading between the lines, Shuttleworth seems to lean towards cats, as do many cruisers – if I’m understanding what folks are saying generally -- so there must be something I’m missing… less costly to build two versus three hulls and/or cats heel less than modern tris providing some semblance of something, or – more likely – some set of factors I haven’t considered… still in the minimalist sizing of my theoretical voyager it looks like there is much to choose from… if, I knew the seaworthiness specs… Monos are relatively easy to ball-park, cuz many of the specs are clear – don’t think I’ve broken the code on multis yet, however…
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Old 06-04-2008, 19:02   #67
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Reading / research can only go so far and sooner or later you will have to actually sail a cruising cat to appreciate it. If I were you, I'd head to the nearest marina and beg a sail. You'll quickly understand.
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Old 06-04-2008, 20:37   #68
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Reading / research can only go so far and sooner or later you will have to actually sail a cruising cat to appreciate it. If I were you, I'd head to the nearest marina and beg a sail. You'll quickly understand.


Nearest marina (where I am) probably hasn't see any cat but a Hobie -- likely won't any time soon, not exactly a multi (or even sailing) hotspot around here... but point taken... I'm too busy dodging rain/drizzle while trying to get the hull done and painted on my little rascal at the moment, but am looking to the future -- I'm one of those who contemplates for considerable time before jumping...
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Old 07-04-2008, 01:54   #69
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Off the thread, BUT...
am looking for an experienced bluewater cat person to crew fm NZ to Tonga next month...There are sites in USA that deal with this but yet to find one here in NZ
??
Tried crew.org.nz, but no go.
Ta
Lee
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Old 07-04-2008, 06:23   #70
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I can not much to add to the whole stability arguement, but back to the original question, my cat (prior to my ownership) started in england and spent the first 15yrs of her life going from england, through the med, back to the canaries, into the carib and finally the chesapeake, and none the worse for wear. she is 40' and I acquired her for less than $150K, and to the best of my knowledge she has never been inverted or captured by pirates.

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Old 07-04-2008, 13:03   #71
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How many times have you ever heard of a sailor switching from catamarans to monohulls?
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Old 07-04-2008, 13:14   #72
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How many times have you ever heard of a sailor switching from catamarans to monohulls?
I have to believe that's rare.... if ever...

At my age, I'm all done heeling while under sail.

When the time comes that I can't handle the sheets any longer, I'll pull the mast and

voila

... instant trawler
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Old 07-04-2008, 13:43   #73
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Derek Kelsall on Cats, Tris, and safety offshore

Derek Kelsall, who certainly has plenty of experience and lots of knowledge has weighed in on Cats vs. Tris for safety and performance. He has posted these two articles online, and I think they are well worth reading:

http://kelsall.com/images/articles/A...erformance.pdf
http://kelsall.com/images/articles/A...sAndSafety.pdf
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Old 07-04-2008, 14:09   #74
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Derek Kelsall, who certainly has plenty of experience and lots of knowledge has weighed in on Cats vs. Tris for safety and performance.
http://kelsall.com/images/articles/A...sAndSafety.pdf
"......design stage, stability and hull shape.-
As the cat rotates, the center of buoyancy moves towards the sheer line, retaining positive righting moment to a higher angle of heel. The designer has a choice. For the same overall beam, he can provide maximum initial stability with vertical hull sides or even inwardly canted hulls or he can have maximum ultimate stability by using a side angle or a knuckle......."

".....Overall stability.
The cats started with short rigs. Again, I find that some of the current designs carry very powerful sail plans and again for the average owner, could be the pendulum swing is too far......"
_____________________________________

Hmmm..... short rig, vertical hulls with knuckles... it would seem that Mr Kelsall is describing a 25 year old cat...

My Catalac
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Old 07-04-2008, 14:10   #75
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Rick,

YOU WILL UNDERSTAND QUICKLY

Canibul,

SWITCHING FROM CATS TO MONOS?

Words spoken with heaps of truth.............
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