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Old 31-10-2006, 15:02   #16
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I suppose you mean "Are cats as safe as monohulls when used for crusing?"

Comparisons may be hard because coming to grief on a mono usually means sinking (sometimes without a trace) while coming to grief on a cat usually means floating around on the upturned cat. Both low probability events, but one is much more severe than the other. I do think that mono sailors tend to overestimate the value of the stability curve. Sure, vanishing stability is 125 degrees on the design, but when you put several tons of stuff on the boat, all of it above the CG, radome on the mast, dingy on davits, etc., you don't have the same stability curve you started with. And, do you really keep all the dorades bunged shut and the hatch boards in when sailing in the tropics? Most people don't.

A statistical answer is going to be hard to come by, but I've never heard anyone claim that cats are over represented in offshore accidents. For any offshore passage longer than 5 days (ie. beyond the weather forecast) I doubt that there's much difference in safety. In either case, the most common scenario is the crew abandoning a seaworthy boat.

For coastal work, or short hops, I think that speed is a huge safety advantage. For example if you're sailing from Australia to New Caledonia in a fast cat (4 -5 days) you can make the entire crossing in one weather system which you can monitor 15 different ways prior to jumping off. A slower boat (7 - 8 days) can start in good weather, but will have to take whatever comes along for those last three days.

Having two engines (hopefully with fully a redundant charging system) is a huge safety benefit, probably more significant than anything else in this post.

Safety at anchor is probably more signifiant than safety at sea and here, I think that cats have a huge advantage here as they can anchor in 4 feet of water with bomb proof 10:1 scope, get the best shelter, and remain clear of (most) other boats.

And lastly, having a boat that is easy to board from the water is a huge safety advantage. It is regrettably common to drown because you can't get back aboard your boat. Transom steps seem to be pretty universal on cats.

But all these advantages are probably quite small compared to the effect of prudent seamanship on any sort of boat.

-Scott
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Old 31-10-2006, 15:42   #17
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Scott

Well said. But this thread is 3 years old

Rick in Florida
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Old 31-10-2006, 15:48   #18
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Originally Posted by rickm505

Well said. But this thread is 3 years old
Such a good thread though, it's a shame to let it die
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Old 04-11-2006, 10:30   #19
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Yes! No! Maybe! Sometimes! Depends! Did I cover all the options?

Define safe.

Better yet, define is....
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Old 04-11-2006, 11:22   #20
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Old 04-11-2006, 12:26   #21
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A capsized boat is a capsized boat, whether it rolls over as a monohull does, or pitch-poles, as a cataramran does.
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Old 04-11-2006, 19:21   #22
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here we go...again... (sigh)

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Old 06-11-2006, 17:52   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickm505
Scott

Well said. But this thread is 3 years old

Rick in Florida
Like Rick said....

Maybe we should let sleeping dogs lie.....?
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Old 06-11-2006, 18:18   #24
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Originally Posted by Eroica
given the stability stats, are they safe in a blow out on open water
We're all big boys and girls here. We make up our own minds, buy the boats we want, and spend our money as we see fit. So you have to decide for yourself what YOU want.

For me the bottom line is ultimate stability. Mono's have it, multi's don't. That made my decision pretty simple. I choose ultimate stability over the many advantages multis offer.
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Old 06-11-2006, 18:42   #25
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Joli,

Were you making a joke? You probably were, but it sounded sincere, so I'll answer.

Ultimate stability is the issue, right? OK, I'll bite. What are we talking about here, rolling at anchor? Nope, can't be, as cats are more stable and don't roll.

Must be stability at speed?... Nope, at 8 kts I'm drinking a beer and eating a sandwich... at a table... and sailing flat. Again, cats are more stable.. So, it can't be that.

In a storm? Well, you might be able to make your point here, yet current data doesn't seem to show an advantage.

Motorsailing? Nope, many Cat's like mine have twin diesels. I can motor to Cuba and back..... twice ...without refueling. And if one fuel filter get's clogged, I do have another....

Following seas? Maybe. This could be a good argument, depending on the manufacturer. But a Catamaran cruiser doesn't load the 'ends' of the boat and they ride pretty well actually.

Come to think of it, I'm having trouble figuring where any comparably sized mono might have a distinct advantage, compared to it's cruising catamaran counterpart.

You were probably joking

Rick in Florida
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Old 06-11-2006, 18:57   #26
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Rick, utimate stability is the abiltiy to recover from a knockdown. On a multi you do reach a point of dimishing stabilty that you can not recover from.

No joke, ask Arthur Piver.
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Old 06-11-2006, 19:18   #27
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A multihull has ultimate stability when it is upside down and a monohull has ultimate stability when it's resting on the sea bottom.
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Old 06-11-2006, 19:28   #28
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If you want ultimate stability, buy a house. In Kansas.

If you want a boat, then everything means compromising at least one factor in favor of another. That's why there will never be a resolution to this and the arguments become pointless, as the things that I will compromise in order to achieve something else will be different from someone elses.

Except for one factor for which catamarans are clearly, unequivocally superior in every respect: dinner parties, whether on the mooring in Key West, or anchored in the Marquesas. No contest.

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Old 06-11-2006, 19:37   #29
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Joli,

It's true that daggerboard equipted catamarans do have this concern, but don't you feel that this really has more to do with crew reaction and ability then the fault of the boats, because as you graciously pointed out, a mono would be knocked down or rolled.

At this point I can speak for my type of boat which has NEVER been knocked down, or over. In a sudden blow, our hulls are designed to slip sideways unloading our rigs.

If you're not on your toes with a daggerboard boat, cat or mono, the results are predictable.

I don't feel your explanation is a convincing case at all. If Daggerboard Cat or Mono is being sailed with cleated sheets, they can be surprised with disasterous results.

Perhaps you can address the areas of actual stability advantages enjoyed by a cat I mentioned in my reply?

Rick in Florida
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Old 06-11-2006, 20:19   #30
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Your boat has never taken a knockdown, our boat has never sunk. But you can't argue physics. Just as a mono will sink if it is holed, a multi will not recover from a knockdown. They are what they are.

I think ID expressed it best. "things that I will compromise in order to achieve something else will be different from someone elses."

And I also agree with ID's lighter comment. "catamarans are clearly, unequivocally superior in every respect: dinner parties"

So here we are. I am willing to give up a lovely dinner party for ultimate stability. Your willing to give up ultimate stability for a lovely dinner party. We all make choices.
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