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Old 27-11-2013, 22:45   #1
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ARC 2013

Hi all

I have always wondered what your money buys you in regard to speed only on the basis of statistical results.

Leaving aside all of the comments (which I am sure will be reiterated again here) about sailing capability of crew, loading, racing or cruising and so on and so forth, surely one can make some statistical conclusions overall no matter how approximate they may be.

I have been studying the result of the ARC 2013 and note that some time has passed and if we look at average VMGs we see

Gunboat 62 9.5

Catana 47 8.7
Catana 58 8.1

Ocean Explorer 60 7.9
Freydis 49 7.8

Big Lagoons 7.5 ave

Lagoon / Prout / Voyage 440 7.1 ave

40 ft ave 6.5 to 7

These results seem pretty reasonable to me.

What they seem to indicate (at least to me at any rate) that if you have a run of the mill 40 foot boat you will in all likelihood on a long cruise average 170 M per day. On an average 45-50 ft cruise boat maybe 190 M per day. On a performance boat like a Catana average around 200 M per day. On a high end boat like a gunboat average around 230 M per day.

The interesting thing to me is that if we take for instance a FP Lipari like Duplicat averaging 6.7 kn at say $600K as against the Gunboat at 9.5 Kn at $2.2 mill you have a 40% increase in average performance for a 400% increase in price.

Before you rush to your keyboard of course I understand that you get a huge amount of comfort increase with a Gunboat and that is what costs the money. My comments are purely related to average performance.

Possibly all of this is self evident, but I thought it interesting non the less.
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Old 27-11-2013, 23:03   #2
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Re: ARC 2013

If your in the trades that are steady and you have a current running with you and an aggressive crew you just might average 170 miles per day in a 40 footer but normal cruisers in everyday offshore weather with a variety of currents would not average 170 k mile days, more like 130-140k per day and that might be high.
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Old 27-11-2013, 23:13   #3
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Re: ARC 2013

They are slowing down. Remember that some will motor in the lighter winds.
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Old 28-11-2013, 00:08   #4
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Re: ARC 2013

Robert

You may be right but under those conditions I doubt a gunboat would average 230M per day. The point is that this comparison is under similar conditions for every boat.

Don

Motoring figures are available. Not a lot so far.
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Old 28-11-2013, 00:18   #5
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Re: ARC 2013

You may be right and your speed comparisons might be OK as well, I really don't know but a Gunboat 62 might very well achieve your numbers in normal cruise mode as I know they are very quick boats.
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Old 28-11-2013, 02:41   #6
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Re: ARC 2013

A lot of them are running under engine with the light winds of the last days. We are in Mindelo marina (cape verde) at the moment and they are not taking in any new boats because they expect a lot of ARC boats to come in for fuel the next days.
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Old 28-11-2013, 05:56   #7
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40% faster for 4X the cost? May sound like a lot, but in terms of racing vehicles it seems about right to me. Taking it to the next level, an AC72 is almost twice as fast as a Gunboat, and what, 20X more expensive? (Honestly, I forgot, and don't really care exactly. I hope you get my point, that speed gets very expensive at the high end.)

Another good analogy is the power required to exceed hull speed on a displacement boat. The effort required and the cost to do so follow similar curves. Speed is expensive, there's just no way around it.

At least with the Gunboat, you get lots of creature comforts and amenities, not just a stripped out carbon fiber box. Like comparing a Bugatti Veyron to an F-1 car, not just fast but plush also.

In general my tastes run more towards classically styled mono's, but I think a Gunboat (especially the new 60) would be the ideal circumnavigator.

It's fun to dream. Whenever powerball gets over $200M I think to myself "That's enough money that if I won my wife would not begrudge me a Gunboat." For me, that's about what it would take.
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Old 28-11-2013, 06:02   #8
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Re: ARC 2013

My boat has only had one or two 170 mile days in my circumnavigation.
TrDe winds running averages 136 nms per day for the last 5 years.

I did a trans atlantic to Brazil on a Swan 651 racing version and it wasnt often we did 200 miles in a day... Maybe 8 times in 18 days. Did have the motor on in the doldrums too

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Old 28-11-2013, 06:18   #9
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Re: ARC 2013

I think this emphasises that there are two elements to the speed question

1. Performance of the boat.

2. Performance willingness of the crew - i.e. how hard the crew want to push the boat.


IMHO the performance willingness is is inverse proportion to the financial comitment to the boat and long term plans. If you are the owner and wanting to cruise for the next 5 years, you will not push as hard as a professional crew racing across the pond and then going on to some other task.
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Old 28-11-2013, 06:54   #10
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Agreed, but you see videos of Gunboats going 20kts with pretty casual looking crew. The Gunboat website cites 400 mile days. Not that I believe everything the manufacturer claims. I think that kind of speed, with a Gunboat isn't pushing overly hard.
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Old 28-11-2013, 08:28   #11
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Re: ARC 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregts View Post
A lot of them are running under engine with the light winds of the last days. We are in Mindelo marina (cape verde) at the moment and they are not taking in any new boats because they expect a lot of ARC boats to come in for fuel the next days.
Bregts. Check out the name of the boat next to you on your port side.
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Old 28-11-2013, 09:08   #12
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Re: ARC 2013

Remember, too, that the ARC is a predominantly downwind route and with a following wind the speed differences expected by waterline length (LWL) are minimized. In other words, if you have a 10 knot breeze from behind your ARC boat will not be able to exceed that regardless of boat and sail size.
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Old 28-11-2013, 09:59   #13
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Re: ARC 2013

A Gunboat 66 set a TransPac record of 427 miles/day this year.
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Old 28-11-2013, 10:24   #14
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60 foot Yapluca Galapagos to Marquesas 2011 average for the crossing 205 Nm max 225Nm true winds 13-20 knots, last 3 days 8-12 knots, always full main and gennaker, last days main and symmetrical spinnaker. No motoring at all.

Lagoon 450 Canary Islands to St Lucia 2012 average 183Nm 12hours motor, max 205Nm , true winds 20-35 knots, first day up to 43 knots, last 2 days 10-16 knots. Initially pushing hard. Days 2-5 only with parasailor ( no main) straight through until the halyard mast fittings ripped out. Then moderately aggressive with 2nd and 3rd reef main and full to partially reefed genoa. Then some of the crew got tired of the banging and scared by the squalls every night with true wind in the mid 30s so we only had the genoa up during the day and at night heavily reefed, except for last two weaker days.
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Old 28-11-2013, 11:41   #15
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Re: ARC 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwjohm View Post
Hi all

I have always wondered what your money buys you in regard to speed only on the basis of statistical results.

Leaving aside all of the comments (which I am sure will be reiterated again here) about sailing capability of crew, loading, racing or cruising and so on and so forth, surely one can make some statistical conclusions overall no matter how approximate they may be.

I have been studying the result of the ARC 2013 and note that some time has passed and if we look at average VMGs we see

Gunboat 62 9.5

Catana 47 8.7
Catana 58 8.1

Ocean Explorer 60 7.9
Freydis 49 7.8

Big Lagoons 7.5 ave

Lagoon / Prout / Voyage 440 7.1 ave

40 ft ave 6.5 to 7

These results seem pretty reasonable to me.

What they seem to indicate (at least to me at any rate) that if you have a run of the mill 40 foot boat you will in all likelihood on a long cruise average 170 M per day. On an average 45-50 ft cruise boat maybe 190 M per day. On a performance boat like a Catana average around 200 M per day. On a high end boat like a gunboat average around 230 M per day.

The interesting thing to me is that if we take for instance a FP Lipari like Duplicat averaging 6.7 kn at say $600K as against the Gunboat at 9.5 Kn at $2.2 mill you have a 40% increase in average performance for a 400% increase in price.

Before you rush to your keyboard of course I understand that you get a huge amount of comfort increase with a Gunboat and that is what costs the money. My comments are purely related to average performance.

Possibly all of this is self evident, but I thought it interesting non the less.
I did a circumnav 35 years ago and averaged 4.15 knots for the 31000 miles I sailed in a westerley Sirus 23 footer. A friend did almost the same trip in a Vancouver 28 5 years ago and his average speed was 4.11 knots. I have spoken to many world navigators and they all say the same daily average is 100-115 miles a day and that encludes boats up to 40 ft
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