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Old 20-07-2008, 02:08   #1
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anyone bought a new boat lately?

Hello:
I am considering buying a boat, and would consider a new cat in the the 40-43 foot range. Does anyone have recent experience on the difference between the list price of a boat and what it can actually be purchased for?
Thank you.
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Old 20-07-2008, 04:31   #2
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Yes. In the UK no discounts, then add-on 30-35% of the initial purchase price to equip for long-term cruising!
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Old 20-07-2008, 05:40   #3
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On new boats there is no rule of thumb to help you. They don't make or sell boats like cars. They all cost a lot but some boats are only made to order and others that you don't want are made ahead of time. Inventory is death to a boat company. You can find boats that could not be delivered for a variety of reasons that usually go cheaper. Mostly you stumble on those. On custom boats it's not something that happens a lot or they go belly up. Even if you knock down the price a lot you still have commissioning costs and addons that are always extra and sometimes when packaged are a good value and other items may not be. It takes far more man hours to build a cruising boat than it takes to build a house. The things to haggle over are the addons not the base price. You most always can deal on those.
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Old 20-07-2008, 18:12   #4
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One other issue to consider in the purchase of a new boat is the fluctuations of international currency exchange rates. For example, the dollar is weak at present, and boats priced in Euros may change in dollar term even with a fixed list price. I'm looking at catamarans at present, and finding that new European boats represent a poor value for me in dollar terms.
Rocky
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Old 20-07-2008, 18:22   #5
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You might have some wiggle room today. It's really a function of the economy or what most folks view as the state of the economy. However, a word of warning, it's very different from buying cars. There is no set formula. You have to look at the manufacturer, delivery dates etc. Good luck. As a final word, it all depends on how much you want the boat.
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Old 20-07-2008, 19:07   #6
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Selling boats for a living isn't. A sale only happens when a buyer and seller agree on a price, and they are rarely within negotiating distance. There's no such thing as real estate comps, or Kelly Blue Book. Used boat prices published in "Blue Book"-like pubs are a joke, usually no more than a wild guess at depreciation from some amorphous "list price" which is rendered absolutely meaningless by the huge amount spent on after-market stuff. Some boats come extremely well equipped, others are equipped with extremely elderly crap. Its rare to find a used boat you don't want to do something to. Get a buyer's representative who has access to the "sold boat" side of New and Used Yachts for Sale - YachtWorld.com, and he can tell you what people have paid for similar models, but that doesn't mean the seller cares in the least about that.

Here's a fact to consider: Many boats stay on the market for years before they sell; this is particularly true of multihulls because of their relative fewer numbers, and relative greater idiosyncracies. And there are a lot sharks around, looking for an undervalued distress sale which they will rename and move to a different market. Looking for a good boat at a steal is tougher than finding a rent controlled apartment in Manhatten; You have to study the obituaries!
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Old 20-07-2008, 22:53   #7
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I'm in the process of buying a Manta 42'. She is being built now in Sarasota, Fl. and will splash in September. I went to a number of boat shows over the years and found the Manta to be good value for money. I'm registered for the World ARC in 2010 so I've got a year to shake her down and fit her up. No price breaks on the list price, though, since she's built to order.
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Old 21-07-2008, 11:11   #8
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I would agree with Troutbridge. Take list price add 30-40% and then 17.5% tax as well unless you intend to export the boat.
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Old 21-07-2008, 11:16   #9
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If you're looking for a new boat, one option is to find a "boat show" boat--one that the dealer has added a few options to and shown at a few boat shows. The dealer may be willing to knock 5-10 % off the list price to move it.
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Old 21-07-2008, 11:26   #10
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Greetings all,
Hud3's note, above, jogged my memory. Like many of you, I'm on too many mail lists. I received email last week, from the Robertson & Caine folks, advertising $30K off the previous listed price of a Leopard 46 that had been through the recent boat shows at Annapolis and Miami (?). I may have the details off a bit, but that's the gist of it.
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Old 21-07-2008, 12:30   #11
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After seaching listings for several years I ended up buying a new boat which is being built in South Africa. I found that with the favorable exchange rate a new boat with everything up to date was about the same price as a used five to ten year old boat built in Europe. Also that the used deals in the U.S. were being driven up by the buyers from Europe with their stronger currency. I am very happy with my builder and feel that I am getting exactly what I want with very few compromises.
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Old 21-07-2008, 12:54   #12
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Dunno how things work in the US or elsewhere, but in the UK if buying a new boat (especially during troubled times) I would suggest thinking very careful about what money you are handing over before getting title to the boat, whether part or fully built. And remember that a dealer is not always part of the factory......always a few stories this side of the pond of folk who have chipped in some working capital thinking they had bought a boat.........and instead have joined a list of (unsecured) creditors. and remember it is the secured creditors who usually pull the plug.

One of this month's UK Yachting mags listed a few big names (for the UK) going t#ts up, albeit seem to be mostly the dealers.......

I am never going to buy a new boat, but from what I can gather this side of the world buyers providing cash upfront (whether in stages or not) in exchange for simply a promise to build and then deliver a boat is fairly normal. For me having to provide the working capital to a business would be a red flag against dealing with them at any time in the economic cycle! And a certain no no without title on the part built vessel and equipment.

But of course attitudes and appetites for risk do vary.
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Old 21-07-2008, 13:41   #13
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It is worth haggling

Quote:
Originally Posted by decktapper View Post
Hello:
I am considering buying a boat, and would consider a new cat in the the 40-43 foot range. Does anyone have recent experience on the difference between the list price of a boat and what it can actually be purchased for?

Thank you.
Hi Decktapper

Welcome to the cat-buying world. It's an exciting time. We bought our Lagoon 420 new a year ago.

In the current market, it is well worth haggling. If you are a good negotiator you should be able to get 5% off the list price. The trick is to keep asking the broker to help you make a difficult decision. Keep asking the same question in as many different ways as you can think of, even the hardest-hearted broker will usually give a little. Don't start negotiating the factory fitted options until a discount has been offered for the basic boat, then start whittling away at the options you want, seeing what more you can get out of them. Always appear on the point of going for the other boat(s) you are considering, but never quite walk away. Steel yourself for plenty of long pauses in the negotiations and always let the broker fill any silences. Agonise endlessly, aloud, about the difficulty of the decision you are facing. If all this fails then pay the asking price and be happy that you have done what you could.

Factory fitted options tend to be over-priced, but having them factory-fitted can save you a lot of time and inconvenience. Know the options you want before you start negotiating and know why you want them. Don't allow yourself to be persuaded to tick all the boxes, 'just in case' or because you are not sure.

When selecting factory-fitted options, try locating an owner's group or forum and identify what options worked for existing owners. Many are a waste of money, others are invaluable.

Are you sure you want a new boat? Pre-owned boats tend to be better value and all the teething problems should have been resolved. New boat ownership is a mixed blessing; on the one hand you have a warranty period where faults can be fixed and on the other you will still endure the grief of having the faults emerge and the hassle of getting them fixed under warranty.

Cruising catamarans are complex beasts and boat-builders are always looking for ways of cutting their costs, so product specification and component selection are not always what they should be. Things will break or stop working or not measure up. Often it is the trivial things that cause most grief. The buyer of a pre-owned cat will be spared most of the grief, but will have the wear and tear to deal with.

How much is that showroom gloss worth to you? Our boat lost its gloss within the first week and was in better shape after we had sailed the Atlantic than when new. Everything worked and was tried and tested.

Would I buy new again? Probably not. In the event, it was the right decision for us to buy new because we bought a boat that was not available pre-owned and it was the right boat for us (the 420 was the only boat that ticked all the right boxes).

Chris
Octopus, L420, Hull 52
Isle of Arran, Scotland

P.S. If you are interested in a new Lagoon 420 I'll be happy to advise on the factory-fitted options that are worthwhile. If you are interested in a pre-owned Lagoon 420 I'll be happy to sell you mine (now we have completed our Atlantic circuit and finished our sailing sabbatical).
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Old 21-07-2008, 14:45   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octopus
…Always appear on the point of going for the other boat(s) you are considering, but never quite walk away. Steel yourself for plenty of long pauses in the negotiations and always let the broker fill any silences. Agonise endlessly, aloud, about the difficulty of the decision you are facing…

Silence is the golden rule of negotiating.

If, like most people, you cannot bear 10 seconds of silence, say only “uh huh”.
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Old 21-07-2008, 14:47   #15
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Hello, TWOWHITES

Quote:
She is being built now in Sarasota, Fl. and will splash in September.
That is a very short delivery time for a MANTA 42! As far as I know, some owners waited much longer!
Soon then welcome to the club!
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