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Old 15-02-2010, 10:30   #106
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Capitalism, at it's finest. If you've got the money it's your choice where you spend it!
Ditto that
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Old 15-02-2010, 10:39   #107
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I just read that the combined money spent on the event was close to 1/2 billion (with a B) dollars.
Ellison spent more than $200 million alone, just to serve his ego.
That with thousands dying in Haiti because they have no food or water!
No wonder most of the world thinks that Americans are assholes.
Seems pretty judgmental.

How many people did this venture ultimately employ?

How many tables did your hobby put food on last year?

We all spend on our egos in one way or another...its all relative.
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Old 15-02-2010, 10:54   #108
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SF Bay venue

We had the Moet Cup here in 2003, back when Ellison and Bertarelli were buddies, and SF Bay turned out to be an excellent venue for ACC class boats. And the boats doing the racing at that time were designed for lighter conditions than a new generation that would be designed for SF sailing.

I think Larry's little spiel at the press conference was just his way to get the city to sweeten the pot on offering facilities for the syndicates. That's where SF will have difficulty, because there's not a whole lot of unused waterfront waiting to be turned into AC bases.
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Old 15-02-2010, 11:03   #109
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Maybe they could finally do something useful with Treasure Island. It was first built for a World's Fair maybe a "circus" wouldn't be such a leap.

Jim
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Old 15-02-2010, 11:21   #110
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That's the key. I was disappointed to hear that there's a "challenger of record" already, once again eliminating the Louis Vuitton-style runoff. It seems they want to keep it exclusively a super-rich man's club.

Although I think monos are more exciting to watch match race, I would rather see an open challenge in multis than a closed one with anything.
Actually, Scott, every A-Cup has a Challenger of Record, a single challenger which serves as the conduit for negotiations between the challengers and the defender.

Bertarelli's scheme was to create his own challenging "yacht club" that made the first challenge at the conclusion of AC32, thus becoming the Challenger of Record. In this way, SNG (Bertarelli's Lake Geneva Club) could control both halves of the competition. It didn't take the NY court very long to see through this transparent attempt to influence both sides of the competition and to have total control over the Cup.

By successfully winning in court, Ellison's club (Golden Gate Yacht Club) became the official Challenger of Record, but given the time constraints imposed on the running of AC33, no other challenger came forward to participate. Had any other challenger appeared, there would have been a competition between (or among) the challengers to determine which one would race Allinghi in AC33.

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Old 15-02-2010, 11:42   #111
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Maybe one of these days they will actually race on schedule. The race would be more interesting if they would race instead of crying about everything. RACE on scheduled days as long as winds don't exceed ?? kts. Any figure would work for all races in the seties..
And get rid of these lake racers and get back to the open ocean race boats that aren't scared of 1.3 meter waves. Like the idea of multis racing, but get open water boats like the race use to have.
Also, I think a one off design for the hull would work for the hull design, Not actually one off, but builf, lets say 10 hulls to be built and the rigging and crews will show the true skill of the sailors.
Just my little old opinion FWIW, not much, just an old racers opinion...
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Old 15-02-2010, 12:09   #112
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SF bay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
We had the Moet Cup here in 2003, back when Ellison and Bertarelli were buddies, and SF Bay turned out to be an excellent venue for ACC class boats. And the boats doing the racing at that time were designed for lighter conditions than a new generation that would be designed for SF sailing.

I think Larry's little spiel at the press conference was just his way to get the city to sweeten the pot on offering facilities for the syndicates. That's where SF will have difficulty, because there's not a whole lot of unused waterfront waiting to be turned into AC bases.
Actually there's lots of places the teams could be accommodated once you get away from SF proper - Richmond, Vallejo, etc. - where boats could be fitted and launched. The race course could of course be close to the city proper, with spectators on the piers of fisherman's wharf and the city's yacht clubs.

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Old 15-02-2010, 12:11   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
We had the Moet Cup here in 2003, back when Ellison and Bertarelli were buddies, and SF Bay turned out to be an excellent venue for ACC class boats. And the boats doing the racing at that time were designed for lighter conditions than a new generation that would be designed for SF sailing.

I think Larry's little spiel at the press conference was just his way to get the city to sweeten the pot on offering facilities for the syndicates. That's where SF will have difficulty, because there's not a whole lot of unused waterfront waiting to be turned into AC bases.
I was on the RC boat for that race.

Put it in Alameda at the Alameda Naval Air Station. There is plenty open land and dock space. There are also plenty of aircraft hangars which the campaigns could use. The area could also be easily secured. It would only be a half-hour tow out to the starting area east of Treasure Island in the central SF Bay. Which coincidentally is about the same distance as from the Golden Gate Yacht Club. Even better, Alameda is more sheltered from the blustery summer winds than is the SF waterfront.

Many of the same advantages also applies to the Richmond inner harbor and plenty of other places around the SF Bay. There is no rule that says the boats need to be docked inside of San Francisco city limits.
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Old 15-02-2010, 12:26   #114
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That Explains It - I Think

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Actually, Scott, every A-Cup has a Challenger of Record, a single challenger which serves as the conduit for negotiations between the challengers and the defender.
TaoJones
EB & Alinghi twisted the thing so bad - it's hard to remember how it is supposed to work. But now it's starting to sound familiar.

LE talked about the "independent" committee to handle getting everything back on track - let's hope so.

SF Bay would certainly be a great venue as David M described = "natural stadium".......and big races are not unusual out here.

Yet Valencia has raised the bar pretty high when it comes to team facilities, hospitality area, press areas, spectator areas, etc.....lots of money invested which is why they keep asking about the return of AC and/or Challenger series. One reporter even name dropped the King of Spain who is also a big sailor. Having one concentrated area for the teams, etc would add to the event overall.

SF Bay would not have a problem finding a spot for two teams for AC34 but one spot for the Challenger series too would be tough when you add in all the politics out here and the economy......although it would be a needed $$$boost.........maybe LE will fund the whole thing with the change in his pocket.

In the end, maybe boats that can race in Valencia, Newport and SF rather than one lake in geneva

P.S. Alameda is certainly an option - but it would be so much better closer to the racing area - ie; treasure island........and then maybe the area could really be put to more use after they leave
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Old 15-02-2010, 12:52   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuteman View Post
EB & Alinghi twisted the thing so bad - it's hard to remember how it is supposed to work. But now it's starting to sound familiar.

LE talked about the "independent" committee to handle getting everything back on track - let's hope so.

SF Bay would certainly be a great venue as David M described = "natural stadium".......and big races are not unusual out here.

Yet Valencia has raised the bar pretty high when it comes to team facilities, hospitality area, press areas, spectator areas, etc.....lots of money invested which is why they keep asking about the return of AC and/or Challenger series. One reporter even name dropped the King of Spain who is also a big sailor. Having one concentrated area for the teams, etc would add to the event overall.

SF Bay would not have a problem finding a spot for two teams for AC34 but one spot for the Challenger series too would be tough when you add in all the politics out here and the economy......although it would be a needed $$$boost.........maybe LE will fund the whole thing with the change in his pocket.

In the end, maybe boats that can race in Valencia, Newport and SF rather than one lake in geneva

P.S. Alameda is certainly an option - but it would be so much better closer to the racing area - ie; treasure island........and then maybe the area could really be put to more use after they leave
Yup....Clipper Cove (between Treasure Island and Yerba Buena Island) could be converted into a staging area. I still think Alameda would be better because of the much greater dock space, land area, available aircraft hangars and lighter winds. Additionally, access off and on the Bay Bridge is still a nightmare especially with the new bridge construction which will STILL be going on three years from now.

As I said, the starting area east of Treasure Island is only a 1/2 hour tow from Alameda. There is not much difference if you have to tow the boat from San Francisco.
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Old 15-02-2010, 13:13   #116
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The wealthy could be forced to give away all their money to those who are poor. But then what incentive would there be for inventors or entrepreneurs to run businesses or for them to invent new things for the rest of the world? The last I checked, most people don't work hard for peanuts or for free for others. That's not human nature. People first work hard to benefit themselves and their immediate families, which is quite understandable.

I can't think of a better way of killing an economy than to remove the incentive for entrepreneurs to work hard at what they do, creating goods and services for which there is a demand and providing jobs. As much as billionaires are despised by some people, the vast majority of them have done those things for the economy and many many people. Its a good thing we have highly successful entrepreneurs. Make them go away by taxing them out of existence and our economy is screwed.
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Old 15-02-2010, 13:37   #117
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Actually, Scott, every A-Cup has a Challenger of Record, a single challenger which serves as the conduit for negotiations between the challengers and the defender.

Bertarelli's scheme was to create his own challenging "yacht club" that made the first challenge at the conclusion of AC32, thus becoming the Challenger of Record. In this way, SNG (Bertarelli's Lake Geneva Club) could control both halves of the competition. It didn't take the NY court very long to see through this transparent attempt to influence both sides of the competition and to have total control over the Cup.

By successfully winning in court, Ellison's club (Golden Gate Yacht Club) became the official Challenger of Record, but given the time constraints imposed on the running of AC33, no other challenger came forward to participate. Had any other challenger appeared, there would have been a competition between (or among) the challengers to determine which one would race Allinghi in AC33.

TaoJones
Thanks for the clarification on this. I have tried my best to understand the intricacies of the race, but alas I am not a lawyer.
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Old 15-02-2010, 17:26   #118
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You're quick to spend other peoples money. Maybe you should sell your boat and donate those proceeds to the Haitians?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam Wald View Post
I just read that the combined money spent on the event was close to 1/2 billion (with a B) dollars.
Ellison spent more than $200 million alone, just to serve his ego.
That with thousands dying in Haiti because they have no food or water!
No wonder most of the world thinks that Americans are assholes.
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Old 15-02-2010, 18:20   #119
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This was relatively new territory. Traditionally the sailing grounds were in the defender's waters. That's kind of difficult when your "home waters" are Lake Geneva. Contrary to popular belief (and apparently Alinghi's expectations), BMW/O outperformed Alinghi in light air, so even if this had been held in RAK, it wouldn't have made much difference.

Face it, both sides played nasty, but Alinghi played nastier. In the end, it was won on the water.
If it would be diferent or not. i donīt know, but alinghi team should choose the place.
It was the race of "Who wants to be a millionaire?"
Never the less, i think AC will never be the same.
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Old 15-02-2010, 18:50   #120
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If you use Google Earth to look at the SF water front you will see that there is alot of available waterfront in SF. Many of the Piers along the waterfront are underutilized. Most of the waterfront south of The baseball stadium, Hunter Point Shipyard. All of those areas would love an infusion of cash to make proper use of them.
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