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Old 13-02-2010, 19:54   #46
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I was mesmerized watching the BO tri gliding along, seeming to hover above the waves, no rocking or rolling.... Then to remember these guys were going 20+ kts! making their own wind! Absolutely amazing.

I think Alinghi deserves what they get for twisting the AC to try to guarantee their win - including trying to insist on only light air days. geesh!

I don't mind the technology, after all it's what boat design has always been about. Where to draw a line with that is a difficult question. But whatever the technology, the boats should be close enough to be considered a "class". Otherwise you get apples racing oranges, as we're seeing now.

And there should be more than 2 of them! Much more interesting.

Margo
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Old 13-02-2010, 20:02   #47
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If you need power, get one of those guys with a big hammer to pound out rhythm and a bunch of slaves like in the movie Ben Hur.

Or better yet, the Magic Christian.
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Old 13-02-2010, 20:46   #48
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I was mesmerized watching the BO tri gliding along, seeming to hover above the waves, no rocking or rolling.... Then to remember these guys were going 20+ kts! making their own wind! Absolutely amazing.

I think Alinghi deserves what they get for twisting the AC to try to guarantee their win - including trying to insist on only light air days. geesh!

I don't mind the technology, after all it's what boat design has always been about. Where to draw a line with that is a difficult question. But whatever the technology, the boats should be close enough to be considered a "class". Otherwise you get apples racing oranges, as we're seeing now.

And there should be more than 2 of them! Much more interesting.

Margo
Twisting the rules to win is as old as the cup. The NYYC changed rules many times to ensure an American win. An example was forcing competitors to sail from their home country, while the American boat not having to sail anywhere was lightly constructed.

Fay had the hull of his 90 foot boat complete when he issued his challenge which of course included insisting on the wording of the original charter rather than using 12 meter boats.

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Old 13-02-2010, 21:31   #49
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Unless, of course, the winner - likely to be USA - changes the rules back to keelboats, but I doubt they will given the possibilities for technological innovation the new format opens up (which is what the AC is really about).
I certainly wouldn't assert that the Cup holder doesn't do something like what you suggest, Islander, but there is actually only one rule: i.e. that the America's Cup Deed of Gift is the controlling document. The problems arise when challengers and defenders can't agree on what the DoG states.

In other words, lawyer up!

In addition, it is the Challenger of Record who is compelled to describe the vessel with which the challenger proposes to race. Thus, the defender merely reacts to what the challenger intends to bring to the starting line. That was why Conner trumped Michael Fay's 90' mono with Stars and Stripes, a catamaran . . . and why there was a long, complicated legal battle.

What I think is interesting is that the current iteration of BOR's trimaran is nowhere near what it could be - they have learned so much over the past year that they could now build a much better vessel than the one they're currently using. It would be much lighter, primarily.

It's hard to imagine that there are too many people on this planet who would be willing to match the $100M Larry Ellison has invested to get BMW/Oracle Racing to where it now stands. If this is the level of financial commitment that is required to mount a competitive challenge, I doubt we will ever see a multi-country challenge such as we enjoyed in years past.

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Old 13-02-2010, 23:08   #50
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Hey, Alinghi chose their weapon, they just chose poorly I'm thinking. This one reminds me of the first time the US lost the cup. The Kiwi's had that keel that made the difference. Today, it's the USA's wing.
Sorry to spoil your day, but Connor, skippering Liberty, lost the cup to Australia. Australia 2, skippered by John Betrand took the cup by 41 seconds.

I watched the televised series, spell-bound. Especially the last fifteen minutes of the last race.

I can still quite clearly bring to mind the images of Australia 2 and Liberty, heading ever so slowly toward the finish. The TV switched to a feed from a blimp. The evening light caused the sea to turn gunmetal and grey. Every swirl and eddy caused by each boat was presented in slow motion.

I was but 27 years old at the time and assert this was the first and last time I have ever come near a heart attack. Not that Liberty was catching, but that the clock was running extra fast and a race abandonment was was close as my thumb is to my forefinger.

And then the most amazing thing of all. The race committee failed to fire the finish gun at the exact moment and then, just to show what utterly poor sports they were, they all turned away as Australia 2 crossed the line.

But back in those awful days the San Diego Yacht Club set rules with a bias not dissimilar to what Bertarelli recently wished to set for the 'normal' A-cup.

Then, of course, the next race series went down-under to the West Coast of Australia. For the first time New Zealanders, backed by a fabulously wealthy man, had a go in the very first GRP boat, KZ7.

That we lost to Connor is history, as is the reason. And you may be assured it had little to do with just the boat.

There was much tooing a froing thereafter till NZ stumped up with NZL20 and Sir Peter Blake. 5-zip to the good guys.

Then, of course, came Russel Coutts and Brad Butterworth, and the third leg of that amazing team, Simon Daubney, headsail trimmer.

Sure, they had the boat, the technology, and the support, but those three were a tripartide invincible....till Bertarelli's ego got the better of him and he fird Coutts.

Silly boy.

To me the A-Cup is the epitome of sailing competition. I don't care if they race in Optomists or thousand foot long, gravity defying behemoths, so long as Kiwi's win or, in this case Bertarelli loses.

The Louis Vuiton is set to be sailed here, in Auckland, in March. We'll win, of course....Goes without saying, really. :--))

Grant Dalton has been the team leader for Emirates TNZ for the last few years, and he has proven to be as much a genius at everything A-Cup as was Sir Peter Blake (against whom and with I used to sail as a kid). But Grant has had enough. Who will take over with sufficient power to ace Larry at the 34th A-Cup?

You watch. It'll be Coutts, Butterworth, Daubney...But for which country?

I just love the A-Cup.
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Old 14-02-2010, 07:19   #51
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I just rewatched the highlights from Race 1. On the windward leg, as USA ate up the course, Alinghi should have tried to keep itself between the Americans and the windward mark. In the old monos, that would have prompted a classic tacking duel. Instead, Alinghi seemed unwilling or unable to risk such a maneuver. Instead, they just watched as USA sailed by.

I believe this is the sort of exciting match racing that multihull enthusiasts insist will "revitalize" the AC.
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Old 14-02-2010, 08:31   #52
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I just rewatched the highlights from Race 1. On the windward leg, as USA ate up the course, Alinghi should have tried to keep itself between the Americans and the windward mark. In the old monos, that would have prompted a classic tacking duel. Instead, Alinghi seemed unwilling or unable to risk such a maneuver. Instead, they just watched as USA sailed by.

I believe this is the sort of exciting match racing that multihull enthusiasts insist will "revitalize" the AC.
A tacking duel upwind is initiated by the trailing boat in order to gain clear air, but not if they have a speed advantage. In the upwind leg of race 1, Alinghi could only lose by attempting a tacking duel because they would have lost speed and the Americans could simply keep sailing in clear air toward the right side of the course which was evidently favored.

Basically as soon as the Americans cleared the starting line and began sailing upwind, they were faster and pointing higher. Within a minute or so, the Americans made gains to windward so they were never really in bad air which is the major weapon the lead boat has when speed and pointing are equal. But in this case, Alinghi is not as fast and can't point as high..

I think Alinghi's only possible mistake was in the headsail chage on the windward leg. They went to a smaller headsail perhaps thinking they might be able to point higher. But then the wind lightened up further into the leg and the change actually backfired.
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Old 14-02-2010, 08:53   #53
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Race 2 is underway!

I missed the start and apparently Alinghi again fouled and has a penatly turn to do. But they are sailing much better with a new French hemsman, and actually have a slight lead and are to the right of the Americans on the favored right side.
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Old 14-02-2010, 08:58   #54
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You can also watch a highlights video here.

Jim
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Old 14-02-2010, 08:58   #55
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Live feed here:

BMW ORACLE Racing

I am getting very annoyed with this play by play guy, who always interrupts the other commentators who always have better insight than he does.
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Old 14-02-2010, 09:06   #56
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A tacking duel upwind is initiated by the trailing boat in order to gain clear air, but not if they have a speed advantage. In the upwind leg of race 1, Alinghi could only lose by attempting a tacking duel because they would have lost speed and the Americans could simply keep sailing in clear air toward the right side of the course which was evidently favored.

Basically as soon as the Americans cleared the starting line and began sailing upwind, they were faster and pointing higher. Within a minute or so, the Americans made gains to windward so they were never really in bad air which is the major weapon the lead boat has when speed and pointing are equal. But in this case, Alinghi is not as fast and can't point as high..

I think Alinghi's only possible mistake was in the headsail chage on the windward leg. They went to a smaller headsail perhaps thinking they might be able to point higher. But then the wind lightened up further into the leg and the change actually backfired.
Yes, you're right. My mistake. Part of the problem is that it is hard to see what's going on - the camera angles are deceptive even as the boats are quite far apart.
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Old 14-02-2010, 09:21   #57
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announcer: "painfully slow tack" (at windward mark). alinghi loses it.

but, have to admit this is exciting.
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Old 14-02-2010, 09:25   #58
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Kostecki made a brilliant call on the layline... absolutely nailed it and took control of the race for the Americans.
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Old 14-02-2010, 09:33   #59
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Wow...great racing. Looking forward to having the Cup in the SF Bay. I sure hope there are more competitors next time.
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Old 14-02-2010, 09:43   #60
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Wow...great racing. Looking forward to having the Cup in the SF Bay. I sure hope there are more competitors next time.
Yes, it was great racing at the end of the upwind leg. But the Americans are in complete command now and it's all over, there is no chance for Alinghi unless there is a complete breakdown on the American boat..
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