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Old 24-10-2011, 15:21   #31
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

CatamaranOutremer's Channel - YouTube

Have you seen this one.
10 knots at 14 apparent.
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Old 24-10-2011, 15:34   #32
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Re: Any knowledge about Outremer's and XLight Catamarans

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Please read posts more carefully. Nothing was wrong. For comparison a FAST catamaran polar here:

http://www.aeroyacht.com/wp-content/...ar_diagram.jpg

Read it against the boat info I gave above. Everything is perfectly in line with physics.

Some boats and some sailors deny physics. Me I am but a scary cruiser ;-)

Cheers,
b.
Barnie,
Can you please point out what I missed in reading your post about the Outreamer because I always thought I was pretty good reading.

You said it took 25 knots of wind to push it to 10 knots of speed - I'd say that's nothing to brag about.
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Old 24-10-2011, 16:32   #33
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Re: Any knowledge about Outremer's and XLight Catamarans

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Barnie,
Can you please point out what I missed in reading your post about the Outreamer because I always thought I was pretty good reading.

You said it took 25 knots of wind to push it to 10 knots of speed - I'd say that's nothing to brag about.
Apologies and I try to explain below the context:

In my post, I said "...We sailed a 53', light, but way less SA, cat last year. She easily clocked 6 knots, was very happy at 8 but stopped being comfortable at around 10-12. That was in open water, regular ocean conditions and swell. I think it took about 25 knots of wind to push her to 10knots of speed. Then we reefed and I am glad we did..."

This is, I assume, the post you referred to. I hoped it was clear that the boat we sailed was NOT an Outremer. She was a custom Schionning - a light design, but much lower SA/DISP.

Meaning - in real life, open water downwind passage, that boat was sailing at 10 knots of speed in 25 knots of true wind speed.

Now looking at O45 polar I read that in light displacement she will sail at below 13 knots in comparable conditions. I think once loaded only with the regular gear and supplies and sailing in open water swell and waves (often both at the same time) the 045 will not exceed 10 knots of speed either. She will go faster on broad reach but we must then allow for the extra distance sailed.

Then you may look at the ARC data I mentioned - a well sailed, clean O45 achieved 11.5 over a longer passage in comparable conditions. From the numbers I can tell you she was very, very well sailed.

There is a huge gap between the pure speed potential of a light catamaran and the runs achieved in real life cruising situations. But I think I have already said that.

Big hug and apologies for all and any, unintentional, mis-informing ya.

Cheers,
b.
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Old 25-10-2011, 01:14   #34
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Re: Any knowledge about Outremer's and XLight Catamarans

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As long as we are talking about dream boats, how about the new Catana 50 whick is now "3500 kg lighter than before"? All their boats are going on diets. Plus their upcoming 55 and 59 models should be special as well. BTW JJ77, I was just on the Catana website and saw no mention of a stretch 47. Can you point us to this? Seems odd that they would offer a 49 and a 50. Another point that I believe is true is a higher resale value. You number crunchers can verify this. If I'm wrong I'll buy you a beer. This is due to a variety of factors like better fit of interiors and less quality issues. You don't hear Catana owners bitching about the crappy fit and poor customer service. BOB
Hello Sandcrab,

The specsheet of the 49 can be found here online;

Robert Underwood Multihulls :: Catana 49

Indeed the difference between the 49&50 is not that big at first glance.

I do not know why Catana has not got it on their website and their UK agent does have it up,however I get the impression that Catana is still working on their website.For instance if you click "boat show dates" the cursor simply moves back up.also their new 59 is only present with specs yet the model pictures&lay out are not.



@Barnakiel;ok ok I got a bit carried away!sorry!

Cheers,
JJ
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Old 25-10-2011, 07:08   #35
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

Thanks JJ77. FWIW The new Catana 49 is called the Custom Carbon 49 and weighs 11 tons or tonnes and the Catana 50 weighs 13.7 t. I suspect this is metric tons and the CC 49 has a lot of carbon but is not all carbon. Even with this major defect I still want one anyway.
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Old 25-10-2011, 07:35   #36
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

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Thanks JJ77. FWIW The new Catana 49 is called the Custom Carbon 49 and weighs 11 tons or tonnes and the Catana 50 weighs 13.7 t. I suspect this is metric tons and the CC 49 has a lot of carbon but is not all carbon. Even with this major defect I still want one anyway.
They always tried to make things stronger - which was reflected in longer structural warranty they gave. Used kevlar before too, I think.

Not sure how the big windows in the hulls will held up against the tear wear and abuse one faces getting into marinas. Seen one owner giving hell to neighbours for having (their) fenders in the wrong (???) place.


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Old 25-10-2011, 07:43   #37
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

Sure amazing all the opinions out there. If I am sailing 6 knots on my 18 ton 46 cat the engines go on. We always sail 8-10 knots loaded. 170nm+ a day Doing less and you are not sailing more like bobbing in the water. A light boat should be getting much better averages but as the days add up I'm sure the averages start to well....average out. Think this is the base and it should get better if you have a lighter boat, if not what's the point of building lighter, just have a tank of a cat.
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Old 25-10-2011, 08:07   #38
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

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Sure amazing all the opinions out there. If I am sailing 6 knots on my 18 ton 46 cat the engines go on. We always sail 8-10 knots loaded. 170nm+ a day (...)
You may consider that going 2 times faster requires 4 times more energy. Making 6 easily does not mean you will hit 12 ever. Please allow for the fact that you will be making 6 in relatively flat water but the wind required to make 12 will whip quite some rough water offshore.

Please note that the O45 as described above made 270+ average daily, (speed made good!) which is, in fact, very, very fast.

Sailing beam reaches will, off course, be much faster. I am not sure though, how comfortable a cat in typical ocean swell is when it comes on the beam. IMHO it is very uncomfortable.

Nonetheless, I believe the future of cruising is catamarans: fast, stable, safe, spacious and little draft. Why waste energy dragging 50% of your boat in the bulb? No ballast, less SA, same speed! I believe the cost being nearly always the only limiting factor.

b.
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Old 31-10-2011, 18:01   #39
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

Hi all,
We have an Outremer 55 Light and left France in 2008 on a world cruising family trip. I consider this model as the best I've ever tried ! For instance we sailed from Galapagos to Marquesas (3100 nm) in 14 days with an average (true) wind of 16 kts, a family crew and the cat loaded with all family belongings. I can't say we pushed the cat to its limits as we were always taking an extra reef at night. Our best performance was 250 nm over 24hr, max speed of 21kts and 11 days over 200nm per day.
Hope this helps !
Cheers
Reynald
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Old 31-10-2011, 18:48   #40
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

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Hi all,
We have an Outremer 55 Light and left France in 2008 on a world cruising family trip. I consider this model as the best I've ever tried ! For instance we sailed from Galapagos to Marquesas (3100 nm) in 14 days with an average (true) wind of 16 kts, a family crew and the cat loaded with all family belongings. I can't say we pushed the cat to its limits as we were always taking an extra reef at night. Our best performance was 250 nm over 24hr, max speed of 21kts and 11 days over 200nm per day.
Hope this helps !
Cheers
Reynald
Real world data. THX.

Can you relate to the comfort at higher speeds? How fast can you go and still stay comfortable / feel safe?

I would also love to hear about your low wind performance - how much wind do you need to get going? How fast is the boat in say 5 knots of wind, broad reaching?

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barnakiel
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Old 31-10-2011, 20:10   #41
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

Hi,
I would say that the speed & comfort are unrelated. I mean that I frequently tell my son or wife how fast we're going while they haven't noticed anything. For instance my son would play on the computer while we go at 12kts and would not notice anything. Now, if there is some sea and if we keep a tight wind angle, well that would of course be another story !
Same comment for safety as I never felt unsafe at any speed. However, sea conditions make me feel generally worry about the potential general impact on the boat.
In light wind & broad reaching, I would say as a general formula that the sog = apparent wind speed (with the geenacker of course).
Hope this helps !
r
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Old 31-10-2011, 21:44   #42
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

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Hi,
For instance my son would play on the computer while we go at 12kts and would not notice anything.
You could have pitchpoled and that statement would still be true!

Mark
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Old 31-10-2011, 23:59   #43
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

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Hi,
I would say that the speed & comfort are unrelated. I mean that I frequently tell my son or wife how fast we're going while they haven't noticed anything. For instance my son would play on the computer while we go at 12kts and would not notice anything. Now, if there is some sea and if we keep a tight wind angle, well that would of course be another story !
Same comment for safety as I never felt unsafe at any speed. However, sea conditions make me feel generally worry about the potential general impact on the boat.
In light wind & broad reaching, I would say as a general formula that the sog = apparent wind speed (with the geenacker of course).
Hope this helps !
r
Sence I started this thread , THANK YOU Raynalds . I was hopeing some one on CF had crused in an Outremer that could report on there experence.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:39   #44
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

Hey Reynalds, welcome to the forum.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:58   #45
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Re: Any Knowledge About Outremers and XLight Catamarans ?

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Sence I started this thread , THANK YOU Raynalds . I was hopeing some one on CF had crused in an Outremer that could report on there experence.
Yep,and you can actually buy the "experience";
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=77676&url=



Cheers,
JJ
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