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Old 17-01-2012, 05:26   #16
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

When I got knocked down, it was INSTANTANEOUS with no warning. Fortunately she was a good boat and took it without much damage... 2 days later we sailed on!
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Old 17-01-2012, 11:29   #17
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

Big help for the single hander or those sailing with inexperienced crew. You can't have someone in the cockpit that knows what to do all the time. Even if you do, they may not react fast enough. The achilles heal of multi-hulls for me is there need for a constant watch in challenging conditions to keep the bottom paint from being exposed to sunlight. This device makes an effort to reduce the danger of the boat going over.
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Old 17-01-2012, 12:15   #18
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
, there are other simpler methods of doing that, such as sailfuse, and even simpler, tying the mainseet block to the boom with spectra of a suitable breaking strain.
yes, they may stop capsize, but at what cost? If one is working on or near the main at the time when the fuse blows or spectra breaks its probably death. Graduated sheet release has its merits.

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Old 17-01-2012, 14:09   #19
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

With just a little imagination, a graduated release could easily be set up with spectra.
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Old 17-01-2012, 21:18   #20
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

Meh, as my kids would say. Yes Cats flip, Monos drop keels, cruise ships run aground with pointles loss of life, oil tankers pollute the coasts. etc through human error and/or technology failures.

Gear failure, human error has greater consequences on hi tech racing boats going shorthanded, what ever configuration.

My real point, and what I find tedious and tiresome is that we get the whole cat flipped thing going off here, with a small section of the mono community weighing in with blah blah etc.

What I have not seen is similar behaviour from the multi group on the mono threads every time a mono sinks, drops a keel etc etc.
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Old 17-01-2012, 21:25   #21
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
I almost took a tumble of my boat 3 months ago. I bent over to pick up something on the deck when my butt hit the big winch and knocked me off balance and almost over the life lines.

The worse thing is, the boat's on the hard, and it would have been a 10' fall to the rocks below. So you don't even have to be at sea to worry about falling overboard.
You need to install an anti-capsize device on your body.
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Old 17-01-2012, 21:27   #22
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

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Originally Posted by maxingout View Post
You need to install an anti-capsize device on your body.
I can't take my walker everywhere.

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Old 19-01-2012, 19:06   #23
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

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Originally Posted by multihullsailor6 View Post
Thanks for correcting that link to the UpsideUp site.

Now when I look at the actual devices that are acting to 'release the sail loads' I see two basic themes:
1) Sheet releasefrom cam cleats
2) Winch with reversing option
Capteurs et priphriques

I've never had the occassion to experience the newer winches with backing capabilities, so I can't really comment on their true capabilities of instant release in emergency situations.

I have however had occassion to use a releasing cam cleat. there was a German company that produced one that I placed on the 'kick-up' centerboard lines onboard a Louisiane 37' catamaran I imported from France, and on the Firefly trimarans I was involved with.

Basically this releasing cam cleat was mounted on a plate that was allowed to pivot forward in a manner that allowed the sheet line to escape from the top between the cam cleats. The control of that mounting plates 'rotation release' was by a spring loaded detent pin that was adjustable by a micrometer type screw knob. They worked very well.
Pfeiffer adjustable tension cam cleat - Boat Design Net Gallery

It appears as though the UpSideUp system is making use of this similar arrangement with harkem cam cleats mounted on various plates and/or arms of a certain length.

My question though is are these cam cleats really capably of carrying the sheet loads of these BIG multihulls??
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Old 19-01-2012, 19:30   #24
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I find these UpSideUp anti-capsize devices much smarter than the hatches in the bottoms of cats. Now everybody can sail a cat without fearing the dreaded capsize!

The question left is the one asked by others here also: do these devices work? Surely some members have these and can tell us their experiences with them? Or are these snakeoil and not prevent capsize when needed?

ciao!
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Old 20-01-2012, 04:36   #25
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

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Originally Posted by Glenn C View Post
My real point, and what I find tedious and tiresome is that we get the whole cat flipped thing going off here, with a small section of the mono community weighing in with blah blah etc.

What I have not seen is similar behaviour from the multi group on the mono threads every time a mono sinks, drops a keel etc etc.
Pretty hard to talk about anti-capsize devices without any mention of why a boat may need one .

I beleive that the laws of physics do apply exactly the same to Multihulls as to Monos.

IMO the best Multihull anti-capsize device is exactly the same as the best Mono keel not fall off / boat not sink device.....the grey stuff between ears. But I do appreciate that opinions on that may differ and that the operation of such may be too difficult for some.
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Old 20-01-2012, 22:58   #26
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Two Capsizes by Experienced Yachtsman

Regretably there are those times when the 'grey stuff' is overpowered by extenuating circumstances.

Two recent ones I imght reference would be the capsize of the maxi-tri 'IDEC' under control of of an EXTREMELY experienced seaman.
Francis Joyon’s Trimaran IDEC Capsizes Off USA Coast After Starting Transatlantic Record Attempt : Challenge and Adventure.com

...and the recent capsize of the Chris White Atlantic 57 'Anna' under control of another experieced yachtsman.
Large Cat Flipped off Niue

These things can happy, so its not a bad idea to back up the 'brain power' and experience with something else....that is bringing up again in this subject thread. If you wish to venture out with no back up other than your own self reliance,..feel free. I for one would like some backup, if I can find a truly reliable one....that is the question I am posing with this newer review of what's available.....not if I would use one or not.
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Old 20-01-2012, 23:00   #27
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Simple System

I was cruising thru the 'Atlantic Cat' subject thread and ran across this description of a simple system utilized on a 47' charter cat:

"The mainsheet was not cleated to a horn cleat, but led thru a block to a pedestal mounted jamb-cleat. The jammer had one fixed jaw, and one pivoting jaw operated by a 12volt solenoid, which itself was powered up by a pendulum operated micro switch. The helmsman could manually snatch the sheet from the jammer, but the electro set-up also worked well. Once a week, me and the boys would fly a hull and test it. It was always interesting."
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Old 20-01-2012, 23:19   #28
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Anna's Capsize

...some particulars on Anna's capsize

Large Cat Flipped off Niue

"I am in Niue, where the crew was taken after rescue. I spoke with the owner this afternoon.

Cause was wind. Seas were 3 meters, no other problems. They were sailing upwind under single reefed main and full jib in 16-18kts with squalls in the area for the previous 24 hrs. The squall that hit didn't look any different visually or by
radar (they were checking each squall they approached). Wind built to 62kts almost immediately (62 was highest owner saw, but not sure if that was highest the boat saw). He tried to get to the mainsheet, but fell to leeward and by the time he climbed back, boat was going over. I did not ask if he was inside or outside, but he was either at pilothouse or in fwd cockpit and was alert. by the time it went over he was outside, so I believe he was outside for the whole thing. His dingy came up to the surface upright and he climb in that on a long painter. His crew got out through an escape hatch and joined him in the dingy. Epirb was deployed (not sure if auto or manual) but no other coms were taken outside the boat. NZ S&R sent a plane, then diverted a nearby ship to rescue crew. crew was able to swim to ship and then climbed a net ladder to get aboard. He will be here in Niue until the next flight on Friday."
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Old 20-01-2012, 23:47   #29
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

I got a 180% (39' luff 23' foot)Genny and wanted to see what my boat would do with too much sail up. So in 15 kts of wind, with main (37'luff 15'foot) and 180% genny I sailed close hauled (40degrees off the wind)for 3hrs at 6.5knts most of the time at 40degree heel (boat actually prefers 25-30)with cap rail under3" of solid water. It took alot to keep her on course and when she went over to 45degrees the boat just spun up into the wind. The boat likes to heel at around30degrees, the builder named her "Roll N' Go",and that she does,roles over on her side and goes. Considering she will sail with a lashed tiller, her hull design (and the4200lbs of lead)make a functional passive anti-capsize device.
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Old 20-01-2012, 23:48   #30
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Re: Anti-Capsize Devices

Guy's, perhaps we should considder a cruising catamaran section and a racing catamaran section.

Most of the cruising crowd can pickup useful tips from the racing guys so it might be helpf ull in another way?
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