Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

I remember that boat popping up regularly with a different broker each time I think. I don't know about 6 years but it's been advertised for at least 3 or 4.

At least you own the boat, so you have right to say that They say that I can't

[downunder]

Ranchero,

I don,t think anyone here has suggested it is not an expensive vessel and may very well not sell at it current pricing.

My reading is that most here simply consider the vessel has plenty of merit vs a Lagoon.

Hughes designs good cats.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by downunder

Hughes designs good cats.

Did I ever argue with that?

[solarbri]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Does matter what? 3rd time I repeating this, you guys have really hard time to understanding simple words.

>>>>>>>>>In first post I showed rare and unusual cat, and simply pointed, that even though it's nice, it's clearly overpriced. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


The rest of this thread - you're trying to give me sh*t for that simple point. Now, from my understanding, this forum made for discussion of boats and sailing, not for discussion of posters. You, not me started yelling on me without any real arguments.

Ranchero, just like I and many others have pointed out....why do you care? It seems you are looking for justification to go ahead and make the plunge into purchasing the lagoon. You don't need to post pics of boats YOU THINK are overpriced.
Try having that boat built. Even with a regular stayed mast. What do you think it would cost?
Stop digging your hole deeper and answer the question...
What does it matter to you? Did you hope that everyone on here would join in, agree that this boat was WAY overpriced, and start telling you how awesome Lagoons are, so you can take the plunge?
This discussion should be proof enough that there are different reasons to buy different boats.
What if the owner of said boat was on this forum? Who's the one talking sh*t about not only a very personal boat, but also his/her decision to list at a certain price? A boat that you clearly are not interested in buying anyway!
And as a self proclaimed pricing expert, why do you need anyone else's opinion on the matter anyway?
Lots of opinions were given....just not ones you want to hear.
Let it go. Buy the boat that makes sense to YOU, and go sailing!


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[Training Wheels]

Well said!


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[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You seem to think that sales are proof of quality. They aren't. There is plenty of absolute garbage that sells in huge quantities.
.

Price is not intrinsic evidence of quality. Market price is evidence of value.

As far as production boats being low quality, at least there is a history to consider. One off boats could be anything from great to horrible.

[ranchero76]

Try having that boat built. Even with a regular stayed mast. What do you think it would cost?

How this related to 15 years old boat?!

Stop digging your hole deeper and answer the question...
What does it matter to you? Did you hope that everyone on here would join in, agree that this boat was WAY overpriced, and start telling you how awesome Lagoons are, so you can take the plunge?

I didn't hope of anything. I've shared interesting information and my opinion on it. Do you care about my opinion? No? Then what you're doing in this thread?

This discussion should be proof enough that there are different reasons to buy different boats.

Ok. That's fine, but I still have my opinion. And if someone else (or some group) has different opinions, that doesn't mean they're right and I'm wrong. That's what discussion for.

What if the owner of said boat was on this forum? Who's the one talking sh*t about not only a very personal boat, but also his/her decision to list at a certain price? A boat that you clearly are not interested in buying anyway!

That's actually interesting point. So you've just said that stupid prices can not be discussed at all because sellers might be upset? Wow. Just wow.

And as a self proclaimed pricing expert, why do you need anyone else's opinion on the matter anyway?
Lots of opinions were given....just not ones you want to hear.
Let it go. Buy the boat that makes sense to YOU, and go sailing!

You were correct - this boat is not on my shopping list. I didn't ask anyone's opinion about it. I expressed mine opinion, other guys expressed their opinions. All fine, but then it became personal, few people just started throwing sh*t on me. I don't know why YOU guys don't let it go and stop teaching me how to live and what to do

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Right now you seem to be cloud shopping - expecting someone else to eat a half-million dollar loss to sell you a brand new boat for next to nothing. Good luck.

It's this type of logic that leaves boats sitting for years in yards rotting away with a for sale sign on the bow.

You eat the loss the day you buy. The day you sell it, you admit you took a loss.

[solarbri]

Ranchero, you are just too much. I'm done here.
At least I'm pretty sure I won't see you out sailing anywhere anytime soon.
Have fun shopping, or whatever it is you're exactly doing here. 🙄


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[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's this type of logic that leaves boats sitting for years in yards rotting away with a for sale sign on the bow.

You eat the loss the day you buy. The day you sell it, you admit you took a loss.

I agree with every word. That's why I wouldn't build myself or buy new. For me makes more sense to buy used and modify to my needs. Less loss this way. But exactly like you said - I fully aware that I'm taking that loss at the moment I buy the boat, and never would hope to recover most of it. But still, with such huge amount of money been spent, there's hope to recover at least some of it at the end. And then market research becomes handy - what sells, what doesn't, what certain amount of $$$ can buy, what's sitting on the market forever. And if some very nice boat sitting on the market for many years (I'm not talking any particular boat right now), than either something wrong with it, or it's not priced right. This also tells me that if I'll buy it, I won't be able to sell it within reasonable period of time unless I'll take HUGE loss. And as said in the beginning, usually huge loss taken by new boat buyer (or builder), that's what I'm trying to avoid.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Try having that boat built. Even with a regular stayed mast. What do you think it would cost?

How this related to 15 years old boat?!

Stop digging your hole deeper and answer the question...
What does it matter to you? Did you hope that everyone on here would join in, agree that this boat was WAY overpriced, and start telling you how awesome Lagoons are, so you can take the plunge?

I didn't hope of anything. I've shared interesting information and my opinion on it. Do you care about my opinion? No? Then what you're doing in this thread?

Ah but you see you haven't expressed your opinion as an opinion. You've stated it as a FACT. This boat is only worth $200k or whatever.

If you'd said in your OPINION it's only worth $200k, then fine. Nobody can deny that's your opinion. But when you set yourself up as some kind of guru on boat values, and state as a FACT what a boat you've never seen is worth...

I actually think the boat is probably overpriced. But having never seen it, I'd only offer that as an opinion.

[ranchero76]

Actually it WAS my opinion, unless you can proof otherwise. Other boats sold, other boats on the market - these are the facts, on which I base my opinion.

Peace to everyone, I guess we can close this discussion as it went by far off-topic.

[valhalla360]

I think the issue with this thread is people are having two separate arguments:
- One side is arguing quality of the boat is good.
- The other side is arguing that the price is unreasonable.


Arguing that the price is not realistic doesn't mean the boat is bad or the owners are bad. I'm sure they are very nice people and I have no idea about the quality of the boat but an odd one off boat that's been on the market for years strongly suggests the price is unreasonable. We can argue over what the real price should be but the market has spoken and told us the current price is unrealistic.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's this type of logic that leaves boats sitting for years in yards rotting away with a for sale sign on the bow.

You eat the loss the day you buy. The day you sell it, you admit you took a loss.

That's not entirely true. Boats aren't toasters. They're not cars either. It costs an awful lot to build and equip a boat, so there's no argument that building your own or commissioning a custom build will generally be more expensive than buying a production boat from a volume-builder. That said, as inflation drives up the price of new boats, it brings up the price of used boats, such that an older, well-maintained boat could fetch a price that is greater than its original price. Of course, equipment upgrades and replacements over the years have added to the total dollars put into the boat - this could be spread over several owners. The market determines the current price.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

We can argue over what the real price should be but the market has spoken and told us the current price is unrealistic.

Unless you have been boat-shopping in this particular market (52-60 foot cruising catamarans) and have actually inspected this vessel and several other comparable vessels, then you can't say this price is unrealistic. It may very well be overpriced, but I don't think anyone here can say that with certainty.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

That's not entirely true. Boats aren't toasters. They're not cars either. It costs an awful lot to build and equip a boat, so there's no argument that building your own or commissioning a custom build will generally be more expensive than buying a production boat from a volume-builder. That said, as inflation drives up the price of new boats, it brings up the price of used boats, such that an older, well-maintained boat could fetch a price that is greater than its original price. Of course, equipment upgrades and replacements over the years have added to the total dollars put into the boat - this could be spread over several owners. The market determines the current price.

Toaster, coffee maker, whatever. The market doesn't care. Again, I am talking about valuations not if it's a good boat. Owners often "feel" they should get more because of what they've put into it and their love of the boat but the market doesn't increase the price because the owner loved the boat. Likewise, the original cost to build and equip doesn't matter. That's sunk cost. It's what the boat is worth to the guy looking to buy.

Inflation is a separate issue. If you take it to an extreme in non-inflation adjusted dollars, you can actually make money. We sold our first large boat for 10% more than the original owner paid. Of course it was a 30yr old boat and at some point depreciation based on age stops and it's about the condition and usability. At 5-10yrs old age based depreciation is still a key component.


Unless you have been boat-shopping in this particular market (52-60 foot cruising catamarans) and have actually inspected this vessel and several other comparable vessels, then you can't say this price is unrealistic. It may very well be overpriced, but I don't think anyone here can say that with certainty.

Assuming the statements that it's been on the market for 6yrs is true, I can certainly state that it's overpriced. Appropriately priced boats don't sit for years on the market.

Yes, you will find the occasional story of a massively overpriced boat that sells the next day but that's dumb luck not a sound sales strategy.