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Old 12-05-2016, 15:45   #16
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

Don't worry - I'm watching market VERY closely for a few months already. There are tons of overpriced boats sitting on the market for years (some - for as much as 7 years and more!). At 200K one could buy VERY nice and clean 2004-2007 cat just little smaller (43-46ft), but due to new smarter design most likely it will have just as much living space.
Reasonably priced newer 50+ ft cats are harder to find, but they're out there. I already showed link to 2007 Lagoon 570, which was reduced to $449K and was sold supposedly for around $400K. Right now there are 2 or 3 Lagoon 570 in that price range on the market. There was Catana 582 reduced to $490K, it seemed to be urgent sale, so most likely boat went at low 400s. There's FountainePajot Eleuthera 60, 2004 all over Internet, including this site for desperate sale at 449K Euro, I'm sure seller is very flexible and willing to negotiate. And all of these are factory built production cats. One-off boat in my opinion worth no more than 60% price of production boat same vintage and condition.

Even though this boat is built at the marine shop, it's one off-cat with no warranty or service support, so it's in the same one-off home-built category.
I'm, as the buyer, fully understand that NO MATTER how long I will own this boat, there will be time to sell it. And I KNOW I can sell Lagoon or FP or Catana within reasonable period of time. With home-built boat - not so much. And this point must be taken in consideration no matter what my ego tells me.

If it would be 50K boat - yea, sure, let's call money spent on it total loss, and do not worry about resale value. With 500K boat - no, thanks, I want at least some of my money back at the end.

And I've learned one more thing. Reasonably priced good boats are on the market for only few days, if not less, no matter where in the world they are. So you won't see most of them on websites, they disappear very quickly. You need to hunt for them. But same applies to the cars and anything else.
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Old 12-05-2016, 15:48   #17
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
I would say its more like comparing a 15 year old porche to a 5 year old Hyundai van.

This.
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Old 12-05-2016, 15:50   #18
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

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I would say its more like comparing a 15 year old Porsche to a 5 year old Hyundai van.
Nope. You know why? Porsche is FACTORY built production car with easy to get parts, service. This cat is clearly not.
And to call Lagoon 560 or 570 "Hyundai"...I don't know Have you seen it inside? Remember, we're talking cruising, not racing cats here. And also it's highly questionable anyway, what's faster - this cat or Lagoon 570 .
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Old 12-05-2016, 15:52   #19
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

You really need to start looking, seriously looking, at how most production boats are put together.
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Old 12-05-2016, 15:54   #20
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

What parts do you think you need to buy for a boat, that wouldn't be available? Winches? Engines? Batteries?
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Old 12-05-2016, 16:10   #21
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

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What parts do you think you need to buy for a boat, that wouldn't be available? Winches? Engines? Batteries?
Boat specific parts - glass, for example (there's real curved triplex glass on this particular boat). Also, on this particular boat - it's very special aerorig, which I love, but many people would scare of, and its repair WILL be expensive.

Don't get me wrong - I love to work with rare stuff and resolve such issues. But than again, I understand, that there are not so many such guys around. Even less have 500K in their hands to buy very rare and unusual toy.
And as I mentioned above - I personally can't afford to buy 500K boat which I won't be able to sell within reasonable period of time in the future. Now, everything (well, almost) can be sold quickly if priced right That's why I'm estimating 40-50% discount (comparing to mass-production boats) for one-off boats is appropriate. At 200K this cat would be attractive to buy, and buyer would be able to sell it down the road without losing much money.
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Old 12-05-2016, 16:10   #22
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

A mast?
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Old 12-05-2016, 16:17   #23
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

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You really need to start looking, seriously looking, at how most production boats are put together.
Well, thousands Lagoon cats allover the world tell me that their quality at least somewhat acceptable . I understand that I might need to do some improvements, but who can give me warranty that one-off boat (as this cat) any better structurally?
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Old 12-05-2016, 16:38   #24
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

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Well, thousands Lagoon cats allover the world tell me that their quality at least somewhat acceptable . I understand that I might need to do some improvements, but who can give me warranty that one-off boat (as this cat) any better structurally?
Not sure just what kinda warranty any five year old boat will have, much less a 15 year old boat. I also have seen multiple threads about brand new production cats having problems and the builder not standing behind them. Not to mention lots of threads about how a recently upgraded used boat being quite reliable.

Again I am not saying this boat is worth the asking price, just that from what I read in the ad it had new sails and seemed to have been well maintained. I have seen lots of folks buy a boat and then spend big bucks fixing problems.

The problem I have with the boat is the rig. In my opinion it is under canvassed, and to make matters worse it is quite a problem to reduce sail enough if you hit really high winds and want to keep sailing unless you mess up the balance of the boat. But I also understand there are people who never go out unless the weather is just what they are looking for and this rig would not have a downside.

I can recall a thread a while back about someone advertising a big cat for a similar price and a poster complaining he had offered a lower price and was rebuffed. The boat was on the market quite a while and folks were posting it was overpriced. The thread ended when the boat was sold for about the asking price. Turns out there seemed to be some type of insider buyer in what looked like a tax write off driven sale to me. Also lots of threads about folks who put their boats up for sale at a high price and when the truth comes out the reason is the owner really does not want to sell but the owner's wife was the driving force.

While there are deals out there in a lot of cases you get what you pay for.
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Old 12-05-2016, 16:38   #25
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
I would say its more like comparing a 15 year old porche to a 5 year old Hyundai van.
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Old 12-05-2016, 17:25   #26
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

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I would say its more like comparing a 15 year old porche to a 5 year old Hyundai van.
Probably true, unless of course you'r an accountant.
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Old 12-05-2016, 17:36   #27
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

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Boat specific parts - glass, for example (there's real curved triplex glass on this particular boat). Also, on this particular boat - it's very special aerorig,
If the builder was able to source the glass, than replacements should also be able to be sourced. Same goes for the rig. (Which some say has already BEEN replaced.)


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At 200K this cat would be attractive to buy, and buyer would be able to sell it down the road without losing much money.
Yes, and so would your 5 year old Lagoon. Even more attractive at $2.00.

And just as realistic.
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Old 12-05-2016, 18:56   #28
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

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Not sure just what kinda warranty any five year old boat will have, much less a 15 year old boat. I also have seen multiple threads about brand new production cats having problems and the builder not standing behind them. Not to mention lots of threads about how a recently upgraded used boat being quite reliable.
The warranty in this case - these hundreds and thousands of OTHER Lagoons, they are the proof that boat at least engineered right, structurally solid.
I've also read about some new boats quality and was terrified that Neel 45 story which nearly sank on its first trip. But most of these smaller problems can be avoided by doing good survey.
All of this is not a main point here. That's what AVERAGE buyer might be afraid of, and that's why there are way less potential buyers, harder to sell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
I can recall a thread a while back about someone advertising a big cat for a similar price and a poster complaining he had offered a lower price and was rebuffed. The boat was on the market quite a while and folks were posting it was overpriced. The thread ended when the boat was sold for about the asking price. Turns out there seemed to be some type of insider buyer in what looked like a tax write off driven sale to me. Also lots of threads about folks who put their boats up for sale at a high price and when the truth comes out the reason is the owner really does not want to sell but the owner's wife was the driving force.
That could be one of the possibilities, but it has nothing to do with real market value, right?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
If the builder was able to source the glass, than replacements should also be able to be sourced. Same goes for the rig. (Which some say has already BEEN replaced.)

Yes, and so would your 5 year old Lagoon. Even more attractive at $2.00.

And just as realistic.
Curved glass like this can not be SOURCED It needs to be manufactured to exact same dimensions/curves/etc (and it WAS manufactured specifically for this one-off boat). Also, glass appears to be tinted, so it has to be done with same tint %. It all CAN be done, but it's not task for everyone.

Regarding the price - you seem to argue with reality, not with me. This boat on the market for long time, and it doesn't sell. Lagoon sells, there are plenty of proofs of that

What I'm trying to tell - I'm handyman, I like this boat and I'm NOT afraid it's uniqueness. But I would never ever choose this (or any other boat 10 years old or more) at 750K over Lagoon 570 at $350-400K. For extra 100K I would add so much modern equipment (and do ANY needed repairs, considering most of the work I would do myself) to that Lagoon, that you unlikely ever will see on used boat which is for sale. And it still will be 250-300K cheaper than this unique cat. OR, if I'd decided to part with $750-800K, I would just buy 2011-2013 Lagoon 560 or Sanya 57, which already has all modern equipment and these are nice boats by any measure, aren't they?
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Old 12-05-2016, 19:31   #29
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

You seem to think that sales are proof of quality. They aren't. There is plenty of absolute garbage that sells in huge quantities.


Re Lagoons being "engineered right, structurally solid", I've seen hard evidence to the contrary. A boat starting to break up in conditions that should have been no problem at all.
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Old 12-05-2016, 19:35   #30
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Re: Another rare 56' Aerorig cat (Hughes design) for sale

You are out of your mind if you think a professionally-built custom boat is equivalent to a home-built boat. Every single mega-yacht is a custom build - do you think you should be able to buy Maltese Falcon for $200K?
Honestly, what sort of warranty does a Lagoon have? Go back to Lagoon as second owner of a 5+ year old boat, and see if they'll give you the time of day.
You need to source parts or make repairs on any boat, and you're on your own. And sometimes parts are discontinued or companies fold - but it's always possible to find a suitable replacement - if not for the part, then for the system. There are plenty of places that make custom glass, and plenty that can fix carbon spars. Your arguments are ludicrous.
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