Another "Best Cat" thread with a twist

[BlueBuddha]

Originally Posted by D&D

[LIST] [*]We prefer the L440 over the L450 due to a better layout for our purposes, e.g. a 'utility'/serving sink (and what seems like surprisingly more room, perhaps due to only one set of exit stairs?) in the aft cockpit & the starboard-side nav station in the saloon.[*]We would NOT embrace the hardtop bimini. We started plans in that direction, but now find most of our sailing is without any bimini at all (which allows for both better vision of the sails and the horizon and a great spot to star gaze when night sailing...altho we hasten to add we hav a strong preference to avoid high latitudes ) and access to the boom seems for us better assisted by easing the topping lift, instead of climbing up onto a bimini.:

This is very interesting! thanks for the insight about the L440!

Originally Posted by Polux

I find perplexing that you have all the money you want and will want to have a Lagoon...that on the world of cats corresponds to a Beneteau or a Antares???!!!

What about boats to really enjoy live with quality?

HA! Just to clarify, this is fantasy world. I don't have all the money. But the reason the hypothetical person with all the money wants a Lagoon is because he is a rookie and Lagoons are pretty. As a rookie you first get exposed to the production cats and then you become more familiar with the more interesting stuff See, the thread is working perfectly. I didn't even know most of the boats you suggested existed, thanks! :-)

[rmw2007]

I agree , an out door experience is essential for those nice days, which makes the GB 55 so cool, the roof retracts to give the Al fresco experience.. and buttons up when it is inclement.

[Double-Wide]

My selection would be either the Gunboat 55 with all the carbon available or my 2nd choice would be the CW Atlantic 57 with the inside steering for bad weather and the great center cockpit for those nice sailing days.

I once delivered an Atlantic 42 across the Gulf of Mexico to Key West in December into the prevailing NE winds. It would have been impossible with only an outside helm. We had to do a lot of hand steering due to all of the oil rigs we had to dodge.




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[Sailingcouple13]

We love our inside only helm..we sail in all weather. The boat gets used not looked at. When you can raise your main, and reef your main from inside. You will sail twice as often. There is nothing like a cold 50 degree sail, all closed up with the sun warming the cabin and wearing shorts, while passing a monohull with with two unrecognizable bundles of foul weather gear.

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[weavis]

This is the ultimate steering/control position for me. On a long course, just put the autopilot remote in your pocket and go and stand where you want in Super sunny weather.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdqXoIhg0dA

[Hud3]

Friends of ours just took delivery on a new Outremer 51. They normally cruise with just the two of them, but have a friend crewing on the ARC this year.

Nice boat, n'est-ce-pas?

[pdf27]

No real-life experience to base this on, but in a fantasy world I'd love a Chris White Concept 63.
I particularly like the fact that it's a ketch with relatively small masts, so the physical loads to handle are reduced, but the long hulls coupled with light displacement should mean it's relatively quick on reduced power.

Being the chronic engineer I am, I'd probably make screw things up, but given unlimited cash you can always rip them out and start again:
- I love the idea of retractable propellers like those used on the Volvo Ocean Race, particularly if you can retract the propeller itself above the waterline - deals with fouling and should make the boat a little quicker on the same power.
- From what I've read, that's pretty much exactly the scenario where a hybrid system might be practicable. I'd love to set it up as an all-electric boat (includes outboards, cooking, etc) with modern batteries like Li-S and maybe a diesel fuel cell, and see what it takes to get a system like that to actually work well. Using the propellers as generators on long ocean passages is also very attractive.

[colemj]

Wow, I think Chris White has jumped the shark on this one. Who wants a center cockpit, ketch rigged catamaran? One of the whole points of a catamaran is the "back porch".

And explaining how ketch rigs are just "slightly slower" than conventional cat rigs, he states: "this is usually of little concern in a cruising context because usually once boat speed drops to 6 knots or less the engines are started."

WTF???? I don't know about him, but we are very happy to toodle along at the excruciatingly slow speed of 6kts.

He then goes on to justify the rig by saying that all the fast Whitbread Race boats are ketch rigged. I guess he is so far out of it that he doesn't even realize that the last Whitbread race was held in the early 90's before it got renamed to the Volvo RTW - and that the last ketch that was raced in the Whitbread was in the 70's.

The 1970's! (although that would explain the color he chose for the boat).

Surely, this website/design is a humor thing and not real??

Mark

[pdf27]

Not so far as I can tell - that particular yacht (there was only ever one built) is still apparently doing day charters from Long Island and the Caribbean. It certainly isn't a recent design though - it was apparently built in an aircraft hangar in Ohio (!), in Massachusetts for some years, ended up almost abandoned then bought by the current owners and refitted some years ago.

I think you're also maybe being a little harsh on Mr White for the design - as I understand it, the main criteria from the particular guy he was designing it for was "must have a mast height under 63' to sail down the ICW". With that limit, making it a ketch is going to add sail area and make it go faster, since you really can't add much sail to the mainmast. That also goes some way towards solving the putting lots of sail on a catamaran without capsizing conundrum - two masts means the centre of effort is lower than on a single mast, meaning for the same power the turning moment is reduced.

I'm well aware it's missing out on some things most people want (like the aforementioned back deck - it has some truncated planks instead for stowing a dinghy), but for whatever reason the design just clicks with me...

[yeloya]

If money doesn't matter and ease of handling does;
-GB 55
-CW 57
-Outemer 5 X
-Swisscat 55

Cheers
Yeloya

[drewvta]

+1 on the GB 55. Nice Forbes write up on hull #1

Forbes Life

[colemj]

Originally Posted by pdf27

I think you're also maybe being a little harsh on Mr White for the design - as I understand it, the main criteria from the particular guy he was designing it for was "must have a mast height under 63' to sail down the ICW". With that limit, making it a ketch is going to add sail area and make it go faster, since you really can't add much sail to the mainmast. That also goes some way towards solving the putting lots of sail on a catamaran without capsizing conundrum - two masts means the centre of effort is lower than on a single mast, meaning for the same power the turning moment is reduced.

Sorry - I was criticizing his justification for the design. If he had simply used your words above, it would make perfect sense. Instead he chose to compare to 1970's racing designs (while insinuating that these designs were current state-of-the-art) and that motoring under 6kt thing - which is just simply ridiculous.

Mark

[pdf27]

Originally Posted by colemj

Sorry - I was criticizing his justification for the design. If he had simply used your words above, it would make perfect sense. Instead he chose to compare to 1970's racing designs (while insinuating that these designs were current state-of-the-art) and that motoring under 6kt thing - which is just simply ridiculous.

Fair enough. It does come out in the extended description - the main bit on the page is just marketing puffery of the sort I instinctively skim over anyway since everywhere does it. I suspect that's one of the older bits of the website anyway, perhaps cribbed from some brochure he wrote back when that boat was first launched.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by BlueBuddha

Hi all, I've enjoyed reading the multiple threads on "best cat" suggestions. I am curious about people's opinion in a specific situation not fully covered in other threads. If you met the following profile (fantasy world time), what 1-3 cats would be on the top of your list:

1. You have no budget constraints. Assume you can pay cash for ANY boat. Assume whatever it costs, it does not affect your savings one bit. So take money completely out of the equation. I know, it's silly but humor me!

2. You are interested in spending multiple years circumnavigating. You want to go everywhere including Antarctica, Alaska, North/Norwegian Seas, etc.

3. You don't want a crew other than your partner except for long ocean crossings. So the boat should be EASY to sail short handed given that you would be short handed 95% of the time.

4. You like space and comfort over speed. So given #3, you want to find the largest cat that can still be comfortably managed between 2 people.

5. For sake of making this more interesting, you can't simply build a custom one from scratch. You have to buy an existing model, but you are allowed to make any modifications you want (remember $ is not an issue in this fantasy world!).

I know that "every boat is a compromise" - but what changes would you make to your ideal boat if you wanted to minimize the compromises?

So what boats would be on the top of your list and what modifications would you make? What dream accessories would you include?

Two options to get started.
- Antares 44i with a more modern interior so it doesn't look like my grandma's cottage.
- Lagoon 450 with some sort of custom-made retractable hard and enclosed bimini for the fly bridge (like the ones that come with new expensive convertibles cars)

How about you?

Consider a custom built or designed Morelli & Melvin design if you can afford it.

Morrelli & Melvin Design and Engineering ? yacht, multihull, SUP, catamaran, trimaran design and engineering, sales and brokerage

M & M designed a 50 ft cat "Adaigo", built in NZ for Americans Steve and Dorothy Darden that has cruised the Pacific for 12 years or so including Tasmania to NZ, NZ to Patagonia and up to Alaska.

https://adagiojournal.wordpress.com/

[marcoh]

I think I would like one of these

FreeFlow Catamarans