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Old 22-05-2005, 02:28   #1
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Anchoring Bridle

Currently we have our bridle attached to the bow cleats. It works OK, but the lines rub on the gelcoat and will eventually go though it. I was thinking about putting large u-bolts thru each bow and attach bridle to them. Not sure the bows are structurally built to handle them (Privilege 37). It would also be nice to put the u-bolts down low so we could reduce the amount of scope needed on anchor rode, but if they are too low, they will catch water when we are plowing into a head sea. How do other cruisers rig their bridles?? Are u-bolts a good idea or is there a better way to attach bridle?? Thanks for your ideas.
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Old 22-05-2005, 06:11   #2
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If you are happy enough to attach something to the hull, then I would fit Fairleads. That way the rope is captured and lead and the metal fairlead takes all the wear instead of the gelcoat. On most situations, a piece of plastic hosing is placed over the rope at the contact point of the fairlead, so as the wear on the rope is minimised.
I wouldn't go fitting U-bolts or any other attachment to any area's not designed to take a loading like that. You have to remember that the loading is enormouse in a worst case scenario, and there is enough to worry about in a worst case scenario, without adding to the worries.
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Old 22-05-2005, 11:20   #3
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I’d consider fitting additional cleats to the inside deck rail area of each bow (just about where fairleads might go).

I don’t think structural strength should be a problem on the bow deck (nor the bow itself).

I don’t like adding fairleads, to any location where a cleat could go. The cleat eliminates chafe, especially that due to the rope stretch between fairlead and cleat. It’;s this stretch that causes a “sawing” action at the fairlead.

I’m not fond of u-bolts, either. They require the use of a shackle or caribiner (or such), which can be problematic.
Nonetheless, I do like the idea of lowering the apparent freeboard to increase apparent scope (on same length of rode). You're into a trade-off judgement call.

Whatever you fit, make certain that you install a proper backing plate, and also seal & sleeve any holes you drill in the structure.

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Old 22-05-2005, 12:46   #4
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bridle

i have an athena 38 the bridle is attached to d rings on either side where the cross brace attaches to to the almas. it is the strongest point.every once in a while i re tie the bowlines for chafe...about 4to6 months. if you dont have rings there you might want to add some. the fairlead should be on the bottom and foreward. jt
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Old 22-05-2005, 23:20   #5
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Anchoring snubber

I have attached 1/2 inch long S/S U-bolts through the stem of the hull just above the waterline on my last two cruising boats. The first cruiser is still using the same setup over twenty years later.

In both cases I added more layers of fiberglass inside covering about 10 inches by 12 inches (or more). You can buy off the shelf Schaffer S/S straps which can be bent around the stem when the U-bolt is first passed through the straps (you use a step-drill to put 1/2 inch holes in the center of the straps to allow the U-bolt to pass through). Make sure thate the straps are at least 4 inches on either side of the stem to give good fastening leverage to prevent any sideways movement of the U-bolt under side loading (caused when sailing at anchor in heavy swells).

There is no excuse for not being able to beef up the inside of the stem to be able to take a tremendous load...I figure that my layup and backing plate will take much more than the breaking strength of the 316 S/S U-bolt and straps. The ends of the straps are fastened with 1/4 inch bolts.

Use a 7/16 to 1/2 inch S/S Quicklink on the U-bolt and a heavy S/S thimble with 1/2 inch nylon line for the snubber....20 to 30 feet. Remember that this is a "rubber band" that you want to stretch and, therefore, would be smaller than the rode size. When not deployed you can pull the line taught, and slightly away from the hull and tie it to the bow rail where convenient. If done properly the quicklink will not rattle against the hull or U-bolt.

You can attach the snubber at any point on the rode or chain using a prussic hitch....practice doing it properly and you will be able to easily attach or remove it with one hand. With the prussic hitch you can easily adjust the position on a rode (with more difficulty on chain) using a long pole or boat hook to knock the long "loop" of the hitch loose and then shove or pull the whole hitch along the line many feet before bring load to bear on the snubber by releasing further the rode.

Make sure that the rode or chain has sufficient slack against the snubber so that when sailing through a maximum angle at anchor that the rode will not straighten completely inside of the snubber attachment point.

You can always attach additional snubbers from other cleats or fairleads to the rode using Prussic hitches stacking them behind the first one deployed ready to take up load should the first snubber fail for any reason. I have done this with success in very nasty anchoring conditons to wait out a storm.

This method will allow a minimum amount of scope in shallow water (like the Bahama banks) because there is no wasted height above the water. In addition, the amount of sailing will be reduced because the snubber attachment point is lower. Pitching movement at anchor will create less of a peak rode loading with this method.

After having "blown-out" many snubbers in heavy winds and huge waves I view any attempt to prevent chaffe (such as rubber hose) as being a mere short time of saving the ultimate failure of the snubber in heavy loading conditions. If you must use cleats and failleads you should use large double braid Dacron leading outboard of any chaffing point and THEN attach the nylon using eyes in the ends of both the Dacron and nylon where they come together. Remember that if you see rapid deterioration of the Dacron then you need to redesign and/or fix the system so that chaffing is relatively negligible and does NOT require vain attempts to attach hose for protection (at least fire hose is the way to go, if at all).

Since I have gone to using the U-bolt system I have had very good snubber service.

Regards,
Rick
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Old 23-05-2005, 13:18   #6
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Thanx Rick - as always, an excellent reply !

Your simple trick can significantly improve the efficiency of the ground tackle of any sailboat. As Reese Pally wrote in the electronic edition of “Sail” magazine (April ‘05);“*... The rode is traditionally led on board the boat at the highest point above the waterline. This increases the lead angle by the distance from the waterline to the deck, thus decreasing the efficiency of ground tackle. The solution is simple.

After the chain is let out, bend a fairly long length of nylon to the chain and lead it to a padeye bolted through the bow near the waterline of the boat. This provides a substantial decrease in the lead angle and also acts as a chain snubber. Some call this a "turtle," but by any name, it significantly decreases the strain on the bowsprit and other structures at the bow as well as moderating the movement of the boat ..."


* more: http://www.sailmag.com/features/CT-April05
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Old 27-05-2005, 03:48   #7
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Thanks For the Inputs

Thank you for some great ideas. Rick, I might try your method if I can get my body though the inside of the narrow hulls. Getting the rode attachment closer to the waterline is a beautiful thing as you and Gord May pointed out. I just came up with a neat way to use a prussic knot on my snubber. I made the loop extra large (about 48") so I can expand the size of the knot to fit over my bow roller. After anchoring, I slip the knot off the roller and onto the anchor chain and cinch it up. Saves having to tie & untie the knot every time. I use a piece of "short stuff" to hold the loop open on the bow roller so it doesn't chafe or snag when the chain is going in or out.
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Old 01-06-2005, 19:47   #8
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I just brought our boat Privilege up from Florida to North Carolina. We did a significant amount of anchoring, maybe I can add a few comments.

I used a bridle that was attached to the two bow cleats, I used a fabric line cover to help with the chafing of both the line and hulls. I did not see any wear on either the line, or hull. We anchored in up to 16 feet of water (On the Intercoastal waterway) We had winds up to 30 knots. We swung up to 180 degrees, or more, fairly often. Once we anchored in what appeared to be 3-4 knots of current. i.e. the water was flowing awfully fast. The knot meter showed up to .8 knots of movement with us just anchored there. We used a 35 lb bruce, it set and held AMAZINGLY well!!! I was very surprised. We have 275 feet of 5/16 HT chain, plus 100 feet of rope. The maximum we let out was about 85 feet of chain.

I concidered using a U bolts to attach to the bows, but I now think it may be unnecessary. My first thought was, how do I get to them to remove the bridle? As you know, it is very narrow at the bows, and laying on the cleat, squeezed under the bow seats is pretty unconfortable, and tight. If we put them fairly low, then it is even harder to get to them to remove the bridle.

I think you might be able to get maybe an extra "effective" foot out of mounting to a lower attachment point. That might mean you let out an additional 8 feet of rode if you are in 80 feet of water, 4 feet if you are using the 4 to 1 scope. I think we'll probably have lots of rod in our anchor locker instead of worrying about the extra few feet we are going to have to deploy.

After hanging off the trampolines and watching the bows for hours , I have come to the conclussion that the bows are going to be awash, often! Pretty high up too! even in very small seas (1' to 2'). I can't see how a ring would have much affect on the boats movement through the water, but I'd definately remove any lines attached to it. You are sure to get abbrassion if you don't.

What do you do about the stainless steel strip going down the bows. Will you just cut them? I think you'll find the strength in the bows to be pretty good. I'd probably reinforce it just the same, but I am still impressed by the strength of the hulls and keels on the Privilege.

Actually 35 feet of 1/2" snubber line seems to be the magic number. The Privilege 37 has a 21.5' beam.

I use a 5/16" SS spring shackle to attach my snubber to the chain. I then have attached the shubber lines to the two bow cleats. At that point, I let out another 6 feet or so of chain from the windless. This puts the shackle at or below the water line and gives me a decent amount of slack in the chain. I then take a turn around the anchor cleat with the chain and take up the slack between the windless and the cleat. This seems to secure things pretty well.



Later.

Keith
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Old 02-06-2005, 03:07   #9
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I crawled up into the narrow bow to look for a spot for u-bolts, but I don't think the lay-up in the bow area is strong enough. Due to the tight radius curve of the stem, there is no foam core reinforcement and it would be too hard to try to work in that space to add layers of glass. Think I'll look at d-rings or heavy pad eyes mounted near the cross bow attachment point on each hull. Thanks for the inputs.
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Old 17-07-2005, 21:30   #10
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A Protest to the Rules Committee

Gord, you're the king of giving proper citation for anything you post. I'm surpirsed you didn't this time.

Except where a few words at the beginning have been altered to direct it toward svcattales, your post above has been lifted from the April '05 issue of Sailmag (electronic version), and was written by Reese Palley. The URL for the complete article is:
http://www.sailmag.com/features/CT-April05

Representing others' ideas as your own by not giving credit to the source is plagiarism.
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Old 18-07-2005, 08:30   #11
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Red face You know Cap'n Jeff

It seems you've been a bit critical about others ways here. You've commented on terms and spelling among other things and here you misspell "electrronic" and now your assuming that Gord it taking credit for something.

It would be nice if you were to be a little less legalistic and more forgiving. I'm sure your well educated but this is a place where people learn no matter what the source was. Boosting about one knowledge is arrogance and I've never assumed what Gord has posted was all his knowledge.

He works in the boating industry and has access to lots of info and if he forgets or doesn't bother to post the source that's fine with me. He's not making any money from it and, besides, I didn't see any copyrights notice on the article.

Sooo....................._/)
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Old 18-07-2005, 10:09   #12
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The unacknowledged use of somebody else’s words or (original) ideas is plagiarism, and I apologize for failing to cite RP and “Sail” for the above-noted passage.
I have corrected that deplorable oversight, and promise to be more careful in the future.
Thanks for your kind defense delmarrey - but let’s not "shoot the messenger" *. CaptainJeff was merely pointing out my omission, and provided a useful link to further information.
*public domain
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Old 18-07-2005, 20:25   #13
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Among Gord's many fine qualities, his lack of ego, patience, and generous giving of his time, effort and seasoned knowledge to this forum I think are my favorites. That he shows himself to be honest, and able to acknowledge a mistake in such a gentlemanly and mature (and witty ) way only makes me admire him more.

I don't believe I've ever boasted about anything on this board. Is that boasting?

An occasional typo does not a bad speller make, but thank-you for pointing out my blunder. I've corrected it. Any time I've mentioned anyone's spelling, the topic had already been raised, or I thought the poster might have the humility to laugh at his own mistake. Perfect spelliing I don't expect; but maturity from grown men I do.

I won't get into the fine points of proper citation, except to say that the point isn't whether one profits from someone else's ideas or not; the point is honesty. Since Gord gives credit to other sources all the time, we can presume this was a simple omission by an honest man. The only assumption I made was that Gord would want to have his omission pointed out to him.

Clarifying nautical terms (not that it's my particular job) for the purpose of better understanding is worthwhile and a service to anyone who might read the thread or join the discussion; to do it to impress others with one's knowledge is pedantic and boorish. I'll claim that my motives are the former, and that there are others on this board whose motive seems to be the latter, and very much like the sound of their own voices. Delmarrey, I'm not speaking of you here.

Hopefully, this little squall has blown itself out, but if it hasn't, my skin is thick enough.

Fair Winds to All,
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Old 18-07-2005, 21:14   #14
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I agree Delmarrey.
It's like, how do we all learn anyway. Reading, experieance, reading, making mistakes, reading, learn from someone elses mistake, reading, experiance.
Hell, I wouldn't have have the ability to contribute to this forum if I didn't read others writings.
Personlly I don't care if Gord or anyone, word for words it directly out of the encylopedia. At least he writes something that I can learn from.
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Old 19-07-2005, 04:40   #15
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