Anchor upgrade on 2012 lagoon 450

[Builder G.]

Hello All. I am looking at upgrading my anchor on a new to me Lagoon 450 2012. I have 12mm chain onboard. I am looking to switch to the rockna 88lb.
My question is How do I learn what weight my windlass can pick? The windlass is a quick and factory installed. I Could not find a model number on the top side. where do I look for the model number on the windlass? Any help is appreciated.

[Bean Counter]

It is probably a Dylan 1700 Watt. We have a 40Kg Rocna and so do many other Lagoon 440 and 450 owners. There is plenty on this forum about the Quick windlass and for some people the windlass itself has been a bother irrespective of the anchor. We find that when the Rocna sets really deep into the bottom, the winch labors to pull it out, so we stop winching when chain is taught and motor over the anchor for a few feet that levers it out of the bottom, but then we found the same when we use our Fortress in sand. That being said the windlass has not failed, in the 4 years we have owned it, to ultimately retrieve the anchor.

Dylan Vertical Windlass with Drum

Click on additional info.

[neworleansrich]

Rocknas are good, definitely a big step up from a plow or CQR. But having tried both, I am a bigger fan of the Mantus. We just put an 85lb Mantus on the Catalyst.

(sorry for the sideways pictures...what is it about this forum host)

[Builder G.]

Thanks Bean Counter. What area of the Caribbean are you cruising?

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by Builder G.

Thanks Bean Counter. What area of the Caribbean are you cruising?

This year probably Guadeloupe and south.

[PaulinOz]

What Bean Counter said is all good.

As to "That being said the windlass has not failed, in the 4 years we have owned it" I could have said that up until 4 weeks ago when it failed.

The motor is totally sealed, inside it has 4 sets of carbon brushes, making copious quantities of carbon dust that can go nowhere. It's my belief this is what brings about the overheating and eventual failure of one of the solder joints causing it to run extremely slow or not at all.

The motor is a pig of a thing to get out, but it is way easier to do this in a marina in civilization, than out in the wide blue ocean. Once the motor is out it can be stripped and cleaned easily. Or taken to an Automotive Electrician for a full once over. This Just cost me $120 AUD to re-solder all joints and machine armature and brushes opposed to $800 plus for a replacement motor.

The manufacturer says no serviceable parts in motor or gearbox, but it uses standard bearings and seals in the gearbox, which had also failed on mine and was leaking oil into the motor as well. So it's your call, but I will be pulling apart for a clean out if not annually at least every two years. This would also be the ideal time to replace your top bearing and seal below the capstan as well.

As to extra weight of the anchor, your chain weighs between 3 an 4 kgs / meter, so a 40kg anchor as opposed to OEM 25 kg is like anchoring in an extra 4 meters of water.

[PaulinOz]

1700 W 12 volt L450 specs

[Builder G.]

Thanks Paulinoz, Great info and Photos. Do you remember if any special tools are required for the dis assembly? Thanks in advance.

[PaulinOz]

Originally Posted by Builder G.

Thanks Paulinoz, Great info and Photos. Do you remember if any special tools are required for the dis assembly? Thanks in advance.

Two common different size metric spanners (wrench in your speak, sorry can not remember the size) a small Phillips head screw driver.

The motor is quiet heavy and you are working on your back through the anchor well hatch. Two metric nuts at front of motor and it is meant to slide back of the gearbox. Mine was siliconed on from the factory, so took a lot of grunting and wiggling to get off. The motor shaft has a small key on it that located into the hollow gearbox shaft. (do not drop the key it is a bitch to find amongst the chain)

To gain access to motor the plastic shroud is held on with 15 or so small screws, then the cables can be removed and motor exposed.

Once motor is out the gearbox is attached to the underside of the windlass in the anchor well with another 4 metric nuts.

The top and bottom seal on the gearbox are the same with a different size on the motor drive input shaft.

I could find zero information on oil spec or qty for gearbox so went with SAE 90 gear oil, filled up level with the filler hole on the side of gearebox approx 500ml.

It is defiantly made easier if done in a marina when anchor not deployed. Next time I will remove the chain from the anchor and drop all into the anchor well. Level out the pile of chain as best you can and cover with a big bit of cloth to catch tools or parts that may be drooped. With the chain off the windlass you can rotate the gearbox by hand at the input shaft to re-align the key on re-assembly.

The job is not hard it is just made awkward by the access and position you need to get into to get at it.

Gearbox input shaft showing key way and silicone sealer that held it on as well as two nuts. This is the seal that leaked oil into the electric motor.





Seal removed for replacement input bearing can be seen retained by a cir-clip.

[Bean Counter]

Great photos PaulinOz, will probably come in very useful, looking forward to the day ours gives up..not.

[captainfitzwine]

I have a 2012 Lagoon 450 and have replaced my Quick windlass motor after unpleasant failures. I don't believe the Quick 1700 is capable of retrieving our 25kg anchor in more than 40 feet with all chain. I always tried to anchor in less than 20 feet but once in a while that's not possible. We'll see how the new Quick motor works and Ice had my original motor rebuilt as a backup.

[Moontide]

I think maybe some are not aware that the quickest and easiest way to kill a windlass is to use it to pull the boat forward to the anchor (especially if there is any wind or current), or break out a well set anchor. Windlasses are not designed to do either of these jobs. That is what an engine is for. Very common mistake as it seems most (or none) of the "teachers" talk about this.

I have a measly 750 watt windlass and have regularly anchored in 90+ feet of water with all chain and a 72 lb. anchor. The only time it even thinks of struggling is when in those conditions and I'm also bringing up a couple of hundred pounds of kelp the anchor has pulled out.

Occasionally I sail off the anchor for fun (and practice for that day) in which case I take in a bit, wait for the weight of the chain to pull me forward then take in some more. Never go in a continuous pull.

For windlass longevity power forward so the chain is nearly vertical as it comes up, and then power forward when straight above the anchor to break it out.

No one should feel bad as every year many people kill their windlasses this way. Almost an initiation of sorts.

Bill

[captainfitzwine]

Thanks Bill for the lecture. In my case I've always used my motors to move forward following the chain so the windlass is just picking up the chain and ultimately the anchor. My first mate would stand at the bow and point the direction of the chain so I was always moving the boat first. Nevertheless after 500+ anchorages over 4 years the Quick 1700, always slow anyhow, never could retrieve our chain and anchor vertically in more than 50'. I would in those few cases drag the chain up onto shallower bottom before winching. But two times where that was not possible it failed. The Quick engineer thinks the motor was just tired after all my use. We'll see now with a new motor.

[steve450]

We have a ultra stainless 45kg(100lb) anchor and 13mm chain with a quick 1700 windless and usually put out at least 35-45m of chain ,it has never been a problem to lift up its usually just hard to dislodge the anchor


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[c-reel]

Not sure if this would make an effect on the windlass, but what do you guys think about upgrading the chain as well as the anchor ?
Like 10mm high-tension G70 (or Flex70 or what ever brand).
Save on weight, save on space, and stronger than a 12mm standard BBB ?

Originally Posted by steve450

We have a ultra stainless 45kg(100lb) anchor and 13mm chain with a quick 1700 windless and usually put out at least 35-45m of chain ,it has never been a problem to lift up its usually just hard to dislodge the anchor


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum