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Old 08-11-2018, 17:14   #16
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

You did not mention chain size in your post. Go with a big modern anchor and G70 chain one size down from current size.
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Old 08-11-2018, 21:00   #17
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

On our 37fter we found try to minimise weight while optimising the gear performance.
We found our 25kg Manson Supreme with 25m of 8mm shortink chain/warp worked better than using it with 20m of 10mm short link chain/warp. The 8mm setup was lighter by significant kgs.
We also have an aluminium Fortress as a spare anchor and this only has 12m of 8mm chain - its holding is spectacular.
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Old 08-11-2018, 21:35   #18
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Something I think often gets overlooked in anchor debates and test is where you will be anchoring and thus predominant bottom types. For example, a danforth style anchor is great for the Gulf of Mexico, but nearly useless for rocky/weedy areas. NewGen anchors set in a wide variety of conditions.

Your location shows up as UK. I assume thats mostly where you will be anchoring? Mostly rocky bottom?
Thanks, good point. Boat is in Florida and its route going forward, over the next couple of years, will be Bahamas, Guadeloupe, Trinidad, Columbia, Panama and Pacific. Hops like I mentioned in first post. So need to think in general broad use terms for anchor.
Have a great big Danforth in a locker as well.

Not sure what chain spec I have, beyond the 100' length.
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Old 08-11-2018, 21:45   #19
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
I'm occasionally accused of favoring light anchoring rigs, specifically for multihulls. Very light.


That said, I still favor steel for the primary. There's nothing like a sharp toe on a steel anchor for cutting through a hard bottom or weeds. To save weight, I favor high strength chain on the main rode and very little chain on the secondary anchor. The secondary anchor will be a Fortress, which is ridiculously light for the holding power.


Another option is a mixed rode for the primary. Up size the rope--it will STILL be much lighter than chain. Safer than too light an anchor, and LOTs of weight to be saved. At the very least, carry no more than 150 feet of chain. The rest can be rope.



You'll save more weight by careful choice of chain, secondary, and rode, than by skimping too much on the primary.
Thanks. I will definitely be doing mixed chain and rope. Inherited 100' of chain and rope, not sure how long.
Interesting to read you still going steel on primary, because I know you understand the weight thing on cats well.
I wrote above that I had a Danforth, but checking through my notes (I am not with boat at the moment) it is actually a Fortress FX-23. Duh.
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Old 08-11-2018, 21:55   #20
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

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I have always been taught (with nothing to back it up) that the effect of chain is to reduce the angle of pull on the anchor. I remember seeing a youtube vid where some guy was anchored in South Georgia in a gale with over 100 knot winds and the chain was tight, but I was in a 50 knot line squall and my chain was not tight. My set up is 150 feet of chain and 125 feet of nylon.

I have never seen test data on the catenary effect but would be interested in seeing it.

I mostly in the places like the Florida Keys/Bahamas where I anchor in less than 20 feet of water. Can only recall anchoring in more than 30 feet once and that was in the Gulf and I had to be 10 miles off shore. As a rule I am using all chain due to the depth.


Any advice welcome
My limited sailing on her has been in the Keys and Bahamas, so never been anchoring in depths more than 20'. The CQR spent a lot of time not setting, like I was dragging a lump of metal over the sand. Usually set eventually, but a few times had to give up and move. Though, to be fair, once on a lee shore it set like a dream in shallow weedy bottom off Indian Key and held through a scary squalls night.
Just a bit random but it gave me that feeling that I couldn't trust it, thus here looking for advice.
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Old 08-11-2018, 22:06   #21
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

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Thanks, good point. Boat is in Florida and its route going forward, over the next couple of years, will be Bahamas, Guadeloupe, Trinidad, Columbia, Panama and Pacific. Hops like I mentioned in first post. So need to think in general broad use terms for anchor.
Have a great big Danforth in a locker as well.

Not sure what chain spec I have, beyond the 100' length.
A danforth style, like a light weight Fortress, would do you fine on the W coast of FL with very consistent sand/mud, but not so much on the rest of that route. Not good in the Bahamas, unless you set 2, due to reversing tidal current on the banks...more mixed bottom for the rest.

As far as saving chain weight, you could go w a combination rode with a long chain section. I used to run 65' chain backed w +100' of 3 strand. Or, go w a high test chain like G4 or higher. Like tomfl above, I usually anchored in shallow enough water that I was on all chain with just 65' of chain...the extra backing was there for those rare occassions when I had to anchor deep. But...cruising San Blas, Panama for the past few years I went all chain because many of the anchorages are deep (and a new windlass).
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Old 08-11-2018, 22:25   #22
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

The thing I like about 100-150 feet of G43 or G70 chain is that you can anchor on all-chain much of the time. This is nice where coral abounds.



Once you need more than that, it's pretty easy to keep the rope off the bottom.


As for the secondary, since it may be handled without a roller, I like VERY little chain, no more than 10 feet, so that I don't have to handle it during break out. It's no fun trying to break up chain with out a roller, since it will be grinding on the top sides. As for chafe, first, when you have two anchors down in a V, the rode isn't moving like a primary rode. Second... it is just for stability most of the time, and the primary is still there. Finally, a Fortress needs scope for setting, like any anchor, but it does NOT benefit from heavy chain during setting (it can actually make it worse), and unlike other anchors, it really does just fine with a little uplift after it is well set. In fact, I've done a good bit of testing, and most of the time I used a Fortress to secure the test boat using NO chain, just a Dyneema chafe leader. It's easier to handle that way and actually holds more than with chain (sets deeper).
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Old 08-11-2018, 22:34   #23
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
A danforth style, like a light weight Fortress, would do you fine on the W coast of FL with very consistent sand/mud, but not so much on the rest of that route. Not good in the Bahamas, unless you set 2, due to reversing tidal current on the banks...more mixed bottom for the rest.

As far as saving chain weight, you could go w a combination rode with a long chain section. I used to run 65' chain backed w +100' of 3 strand. Or, go w a high test chain like G4 or higher. Like tomfl above, I usually anchored in shallow enough water that I was on all chain with just 65' of chain...the extra backing was there for those rare occassions when I had to anchor deep. But...cruising San Blas, Panama for the past few years I went all chain because many of the anchorages are deep (and a new windlass).
Thanks, the whole windlass and anchor locker kind of defines some of my choices. It's all in the right place but not roomy enough to do everything. The windlass is fitted snug, the chain has to be manually shoved back as it quicky, really quickly, piles up underneath, and the locker itself is perfectly placed for weight, but again limited in size.
So mixed chain rope is a given.

I was kind of fishing for if anyone had gone for aluminium as primary.
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Old 08-11-2018, 22:42   #24
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
The thing I like about 100-150 feet of G43 or G70 chain is that you can anchor on all-chain much of the time. This is nice where coral abounds.



Once you need more than that, it's pretty easy to keep the rope off the bottom.


As for the secondary, since it may be handled without a roller, I like VERY little chain, no more than 10 feet, so that I don't have to handle it during break out. It's no fun trying to break up chain with out a roller, since it will be grinding on the top sides. As for chafe, first, when you have two anchors down in a V, the rode isn't moving like a primary rode. Second... it is just for stability most of the time, and the primary is still there. Finally, a Fortress needs scope for setting, like any anchor, but it does NOT benefit from heavy chain during setting (it can actually make it worse), and unlike other anchors, it really does just fine with a little uplift after it is well set. In fact, I've done a good bit of testing, and most of the time I used a Fortress to secure the test boat using NO chain, just a Dyneema chafe leader. It's easier to handle that way and actually holds more than with chain (sets deeper).
That's interesting. The Fortress as it happens has no chain with it, just rope, and I was was wondering about that. Thanks!
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Old 09-11-2018, 00:07   #25
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

I don't know, you sound like you've had baddish anchoring experiences with that cqr (understandably IMHO). Once you switch to a new gen, and can drop that thing anywhere you like more or less without worry on the first try, you might really up your time spent at anchor. I would throw anything overboard (except my partners or possibly my sailing kittens) to save weight before I reduced my anchor size...it's the best medicine for a solid night's sleep. Yes geometry is a huge factor in anchor setting, but then you have variables like: did you set it perfectly every time? no tin can under the point? Those unexpected swells dragging at it? will it reset as well with a wind shift and a clump of weed on it, or would that extra 15 kilos have made the difference? And even if all things are equal, will you sleep as well when the wind kicks up knowing one of the single most important things on your boat is not as beefy as you could have had?
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:13   #26
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

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I don't know, you sound like you've had baddish anchoring experiences with that cqr (understandably IMHO). Once you switch to a new gen, and can drop that thing anywhere you like more or less without worry on the first try, you might really up your time spent at anchor. I would throw anything overboard (except my partners or possibly my sailing kittens) to save weight before I reduced my anchor size...it's the best medicine for a solid night's sleep. Yes geometry is a huge factor in anchor setting, but then you have variables like: did you set it perfectly every time? no tin can under the point? Those unexpected swells dragging at it? will it reset as well with a wind shift and a clump of weed on it, or would that extra 15 kilos have made the difference? And even if all things are equal, will you sleep as well when the wind kicks up knowing one of the single most important things on your boat is not as beefy as you could have had?
Yes, exactly this. Helps to talk to help you think.
My brain even went down the route of something like, "Hold on, things weigh less under water. So if you are thinking to use an aluminium anchor, that's starting at half the weight above water, under water it will be relatively speaking even lighter. Stop, you fool! Just get the steel one already!"
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:53   #27
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

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Thanks, the whole windlass and anchor locker kind of defines some of my choices. It's all in the right place but not roomy enough to do everything. The windlass is fitted snug, the chain has to be manually shoved back as it quicky, really quickly, piles up underneath, and the locker itself is perfectly placed for weight, but again limited in size.
So mixed chain rope is a given.

I was kind of fishing for if anyone had gone for aluminium as primary.


I only have aluminum anchors on board. My boat is 44’ and 10,000 pounds, and my arms and back are my anchor windlass. My aluminum spade has held my boat in 60 knot gusts, and has always set flawlessly.

Currently I have an FX-23 as my bower, as our current cruising area is good sand bottom. I have 120’ of 1/4” G70 chain and 300’ of 1/2” polyester double braid. I have another FX-23 onboard, and an FX-11 for use as a kedge or stern anchor. I like anchors.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:38   #28
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

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I only have aluminum anchors on board. My boat is 44’ and 10,000 pounds, and my arms and back are my anchor windlass. My aluminum spade has held my boat in 60 knot gusts, and has always set flawlessly.

Currently I have an FX-23 as my bower, as our current cruising area is good sand bottom. I have 120’ of 1/4” G70 chain and 300’ of 1/2” polyester double braid. I have another FX-23 onboard, and an FX-11 for use as a kedge or stern anchor. I like anchors.
That is so interesting. Did you choose or inherit? Go thru some of my deliberations?
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:48   #29
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

Chose and purchased everything myself. No deliberations on choosing aluminum, as weight for me is important, only on what size to get.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:49   #30
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Re: Aluminium anchor as main

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That's interesting. The Fortress as it happens has no chain with it, just rope, and I was was wondering about that. Thanks!

For regular use I'd probably put a little chain on it, just for wear as it digs in. I did use a chafe cover over a Dyneema leader. I often moved anchors around with a kayak, so no-chain was really handy. Yes, I had a dinghy. and used that too, but in some way the kayak was handier.



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