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Old 05-03-2012, 18:36   #16
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Re: Aft Helms

[QUOTE=AllezCat;902468]1: you should be able to see sails from helm. I can see them from interior too.
2:this is a mute point as it deals with dual helms - can have dual bulkhead helms
3:i have the throttle levers on both helms - but find it no different than bulkhead helm. I also now have remote engine control.
4: i live on a sail boat - the cockpit is large enough. they take up much exposed space on deck.
5:not in relation to a bulkhead helm - flybridge is another story.
6:mute - see 2:

Sorry mate i mean DUAL AFT Helms. On plenty of flybridge and bulkhead boats ive been on you cant properly see the sails ie only on one tack. Even the dual bulkhead versions arent the greatest for sail trimming.

i have a 42 foot boat so room saved in the cockpit matters to me quite a bit. on a 47plus i agree its not such an issue. guess i should have made that clear too...
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Old 05-03-2012, 23:55   #17
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Just inspected a Lagoon 440. I had assumed that with a totally exposed helm position on high - not even a dodger- that there must be some internal wheel but no sign of one. Looks good for docking or fair weather tropics but that's about it so far as I could see. Am I missing something?
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Old 06-03-2012, 00:48   #18
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Re: Aft Helms

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Originally Posted by Teeto View Post
Just inspected a Lagoon 440. I had assumed that with a totally exposed helm position on high - not even a dodger- that there must be some internal wheel but no sign of one. Looks good for docking or fair weather tropics but that's about it so far as I could see. Am I missing something?
Most have dodgers and an inside helm position is an option, there are quite a few posts on this forum from people crossing Atlantic and Pacific using the combo of inside/outside and remote.

Totally agree with a reserve autopilot for long distance stuff i'd hate to helm one of these for 17 days that's for sure.

There's criticism regarding the flybridge helm however i think with the previously mentioned options i'd rather that than sitting on the windward quarter copping it...(a bit of a Mono style methinks) Only my opinion.
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Old 06-03-2012, 01:14   #19
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Re: Aft Helms

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post

-----------------

There's criticism regarding the flybridge helm however i think with the previously mentioned options i'd rather that than sitting on the windward quarter copping it...(a bit of a Mono style methinks) Only my opinion.
Agreed, probably a legacy from monos and the French being in a colder climate chasing sun. At least the French builders for the charter market in tropics are now building in better sun protection thesedays.

In the tropics I think the rear helms out in the sun is crazy even if you build some shade it is a compromise. Allezcat has got it sorted
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Old 06-03-2012, 01:39   #20
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Re: Aft Helms

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Agreed, probably a legacy from monos and the French being in a colder climate chasing sun. At least the French builders for the charter market in tropics are now building in better sun protection thesedays.

In the tropics I think the rear helms out in the sun is crazy even if you build some shade it is a compromise. Allezcat has got it sorted
LMAO it would look like a dunny on either quarter,,,,,,,,
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:03   #21
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Re: Aft Helms

heres one I saw with shades.
Whatever works...

edit: dinkum dunny?
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:06   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllezCat
heres one I saw with shades.
Whatever works...

edit: dinkum dunny?
Nice.....you may actually catch some shade between 12:00 and 12:15 pm!
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:06   #23
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Re: Aft Helms

Lol great at noon!!!

Very nice boat though :-)
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:07   #24
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Re: Aft Helms

Snap!
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:20   #25
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Re: Aft Helms

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Nice.....you may actually catch some shade between 12:00 and 12:15 pm!
yea - exactly.
Seems to be response to salesmen.
Salesmen: "they are really, really, really good".
"but, what about shade".
"well you can put up a shade"
"but, isn't it close to the rail and dangerous"
"you should be hooked in, besides most people have the boat on autopilot and sit in the cockpit".
You need to be sitting adjacent and at the height of the rail on a vessel with 30' beam? Seems very silly. Once, you have a bulkhead helm, you can go and sit at the rail anytime, with the boat on autopilot.
My philosophy is the helm should be central to sailing, and navigating hardware, and where people wish to be.
There is also so much redundant equipment. I will be consolidating winches, etc...
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:40   #26
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Re: Aft Helms

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.....
My philosophy is the helm should be central to sailing, and navigating hardware, and where people wish to be.
There is also so much redundant equipment. I will be consolidating winches, etc...
Yes! The best helm arrangements I have seen on cats are Chris Whites, Gunboats, and some of the Wharrams.

I have not spent a lot of time handling the Lagoon 44/50, but the fly bridge helm is quite good for docking -- visibility all around. And, those I have been aboard have had a very compact inside helm position with throttle controls and joystick steering.
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:07   #27
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Re: Aft Helms

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I'm sorry but if you have to walk from one helm to the other to check a blind spot how would that make it safe? Safe is good visibility to all parts of the boat from one helm. Safe is also being in a protected part of the boat steering not perched of the rear rail. I do agree an autopilot is a safety item but should never take the place of a helmsman because the helm position is not well thought out.
Show me a cat where you can see everything from the helm on all points of sail, flying your complete inventory and you'll have a good point. Also remember that when passage making it is accepted practice to be alone on deck, therefore an auto pilot is a necessity. To be honest I would question a helm who didn't move about the cockpit to view potential blindspots, check sail settings (please don't tell me you can do this from an inboard helm, you can't) get up and make log entries etc etc.
If you want to sit at the helm for the entire watch perhaps a motorboat would be more suitable... ;-)
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:26   #28
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Re: Aft Helms

I felt I could see anything I needed to see on my Lagoon 42 with one single raised helm. I could see both bows, both sterns, the dingy on the davits, the head sail and the mainsail trim through the window in my bimini! Moot point for me though, as I let the autopilot steer 90% of the time anyway! Dual helms might be nice for docking, IF you have the complication of dual engine controls. But even on a mono, I seldom feel the need to actually see the side of the boat to dock. It's kinda like parking a car... you get to know where the side is without hanging your head out the window!
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:29   #29
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Re: Aft Helms

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Yes! The best helm arrangements I have seen on cats are Chris Whites, Gunboats, and some of the Wharrams.

I have not spent a lot of time handling the Lagoon 44/50, but the fly bridge helm is quite good for docking -- visibility all around. And, those I have been aboard have had a very compact inside helm position with throttle controls and joystick steering.
Yea I am a big fan of Chris White and his designs after I was aboard at Annapolis.
And after being around gunboats - I am (reluctantly) a fan (without considering price)- mostly of the minimalistic butts.
I got too much junk in my trunk...
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:34   #30
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Re: Aft Helms

AllezCat. So you are converting to a single helm? Do tell.
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