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Old 20-08-2013, 10:04   #46
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Re: Aft Helm Position (Pros and Cons)?

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Originally Posted by REsCat View Post
Hi Mark

Please note that my pros are directed at Kaptain Ken(whom I quoted) and his L440 flybridge helm situation remarks and are not entirely applicable to cabin bulkhead/cockpit helms such as yours.





I hope I have clarified the above points? I totally agree with you as you have often said, that ALL boats are compromises and that outboard helms are far from perfect, but they work well for me and I would not want anything else.
I can readily counter any of the other negatives brought up previously by other posters in this thread.


I enjoy your blog and adventures, passed by you briefly in the Bahamas back in 2010(Raggeds,Salt pond area) and hope to cross paths with you and Michele again soon. I hope Charlie and Liz are faring well.


Bob
AH! I understand now. I thought you were giving advantages of outboard helms over bulkhead helms and those particular points caused me confusion (particularly the steps and saloon thing). I agree with the advantages over flybridges.

Just spent a week in San Francisco with Lizz and Charlie, where he is coaching the US AC45 youth team. They sold Kaya and are looking to buy a 431.

Mark
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Old 04-09-2013, 22:17   #47
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Re: Aft Helm Position (Pros and Cons)?

We have an Atlantic 42 with a forward cockpit and forward helm. But we also have a helm inside the pilot house for those rare days when we actually go to windward and I don't want to get my hair sprayed. Yes, we are cruisers which mean we are on AP 99% of the time, but the days we do some fun racing, docking or tricky navigating it's great and super easy to have the forward helm.
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Old 06-09-2013, 17:15   #48
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Re: Aft Helm Position (Pros and Cons)?

All this talk about AP 99% of the time is nonsense. When we are underway , AP on or off , some one is always on the helm or darn close by. You need to be able to watch the instruments and heaven forbid getting too close to a reef , dodging a fish pot, avoiding a log , etc etc etc. it makes more sense to have a bulkhead mounted helm. Safety , comfort , warmth and the option to take immediate action should the situation arise. Imagine have to scamper your way out in the dark to the aft section of hull , wet , cold and exposed. Not for me. Would I rather operate a motor vehicle from inside or perched on the roof or boot lid ? ?
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Old 06-09-2013, 17:43   #49
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Re: Aft Helm Position (Pros and Cons)?

OK, point taken... make it 98% of the time! Doesnt mean someone isnt on watch, or near the helm... although I may be whipping the end of a sheet!
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:10   #50
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Re: Aft Helm Position (Pros and Cons)?

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All this talk about AP 99% of the time is nonsense. When we are underway , AP on or off , some one is always on the helm or darn close by. You need to be able to watch the instruments and heaven forbid getting too close to a reef , dodging a fish pot, avoiding a log , etc etc etc. it makes more sense to have a bulkhead mounted helm. Safety , comfort , warmth and the option to take immediate action should the situation arise. Imagine have to scamper your way out in the dark to the aft section of hull , wet , cold and exposed. Not for me. Would I rather operate a motor vehicle from inside or perched on the roof or boot lid ? ?
so..... are you saying that, with my aft helms, while I am "underway , Ap on or off, " I'm not always "on the helm or darn close by" ????

and that I'm not able "to watch the instruments and heaven forbid getting too close to a reef , dodging a fish pot, avoiding a log , etc etc etc " ????

"it makes more sense to have a bulkhead mounted helm" because I can't perform any of the above functions as well (or better!) with my aft helms ????

"Safety , comfort , warmth and the option to take immediate action should the situation arise" what.... none of those apply to me with my aft helms ????

"Imagine have to scamper your way out in the dark to the aft section of hull , wet , cold and exposed"
........ just where exactly do you think my aft helms are located.... on the end of the boom ????

"Would I rather operate a motor vehicle from inside or perched on the roof or boot lid ? ? "

I'll bite.... where would you rather operate ?????

Bob
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Old 06-09-2013, 20:41   #51
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Re: Aft Helm Position (Pros and Cons)?

I've never sailed a boat with twin helms on the stern but did stand at the helm of a Catana 50. There was no way to see the opposite bow. Seems you would constantly be running from helm to helm to keep a good watch. May be a good way to lose weight.
I've also never sailed a cat with a flybridge helm but once again did stand behind the wheel of one while at the dock. Wow what great visibility! But what happens when you have the genoa or screecher set? Do you lose a lot of visibility to the leeward side? If so it would be a long run down the stairs and to the leeward side to gain some visibility. Like I said, never sailed either but just imagining the sailing process on these type boats.
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Old 06-09-2013, 21:03   #52
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Re: Aft Helm Position (Pros and Cons)?

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I've never sailed a boat with twin helms on the stern but did stand at the helm of a Catana 50. There was no way to see the opposite bow. Seems you would constantly be running from helm to helm to keep a good watch. May be a good way to lose weight.
I've also never sailed a cat with a flybridge helm but once again did stand behind the wheel of one while at the dock. Wow what great visibility! But what happens when you have the genoa or screecher set? Do you lose a lot of visibility to the leeward side? If so it would be a long run down the stairs and to the leeward side to gain some visibility. Like I said, never sailed either but just imagining the sailing process on these type boats.
The Poncin ownership of Catana , resulting in the Catana 50 and the last hulls of the 471/431 (2004> I believe) had a hardtop structure redesign and supports that blocked the 360 degree view which I enjoy (2001 model). Dumb......

I am headed to the boat on Monday and will bring back a good photo of my visibility.
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Old 06-09-2013, 21:23   #53
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Re: Aft Helm Position (Pros and Cons)?

Have any of the cat makers incorporated video? Trucks have rear view video displays for backing up. I can imagine keeping the spray off them would be a challenge.
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Old 06-09-2013, 23:12   #54
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The Catana aft helms have visibility pros and cons. Regardless of helm location a very nice boat.

Personally the helm location is only a small consideration when deciding on a boat. I would get used to the location either way.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:45   #55
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Re: Aft Helm Position (Pros and Cons)?

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
Have any of the cat makers incorporated video? Trucks have rear view video displays for backing up. I can imagine keeping the spray off them would be a challenge.
I was on a Catana 50 at a boat show several years ago where the only visibility for over half the boat was from video cameras pointed at the corners with screens at the helms.

It was a very poor design and very heavy boat. Catana changed it in later years.

Mark
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:51   #56
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I was on a Catana 50 at a boat show several years ago where the only visibility for over half the boat was from video cameras pointed at the corners with screens at the helms.

It was a very poor design and very heavy boat. Catana changed it in later years.

Mark
I think any boat that uses video cameras to gain visibility is probably a poor design.
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