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Old 01-10-2009, 15:58   #16
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When the rules say "substansiate"...

When I'm expecting substantiation I'm looking for something that might fit this definition.

I'm not seeing it, and for this level of "complaint" I'm expecting a lot more than an unattributed image.

I don't like this sort of thing on our Forum and I'd much rather it was taken somewhere else.

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Old 01-10-2009, 16:15   #17
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I agree with Boracay, as do most of the rest of the moderators. This stuff is getting real tiresome. I also believe that most of the members would agree. If this discussion was taken elsewhere I don't think anyone would miss it, except for the propagators of the discussion. In my opinion it is of questionable value to anyone. Each time we get one of these threads it devolves more into more bullying than fact finding and almost always has to be closed.


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Old 01-10-2009, 16:27   #18
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Originally Posted by Steve_C View Post
I would still like to hear directly from Gideon himself about the current issues with B&B and how they are being resolved.
In the absence of a reply from Gideon I'll jump in and tell you what I know so far... I asked Gideon about the outstanding issues with Butterfly & Barnacle in the Alternative Propulsion Thread (link in my first post). His reply was:

Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
All outstanding warranty issues are being taken care of.
I questioned Gideon's response in the other thread. However, I would recommend you read the last two posts of the B & B blog (21/09 and 29/09) to update yourself regarding the outstanding and unresolved issues. The fact that B & B's posts are at odds with Gideon's reply to my direct question rang alarm bells.

From what I have read of the two active blogs (B & B and African Seawing) it seems that one customer kowtowed to Gideon and is getting things fixed (although from reading their blog posts they are clearly not happy about the way they have been treated) while the other customer didn't kowtow, received less favourable treatment and still has outstanding issues that are not presently being resolved, although Gideon would rather have me, as a potential customer, believe otherwise. I find that deplorable and quite worrying, hence my initial post in this thread.

I used to run a business and had all kinds of people as customers. Some were easy to deal with and some weren't (I'm not suggesting that either of the two Fastcat customers referred to above were in this category). My point being, if any customer had a problem, it was resolved. It didn't matter if I thought they had approached me in the wrong way (as Gideon once suggested in one of his posts here). The fact is, a problem with one of our products was a problem and it got fixed. It's very bad practice not to.

I hope this helps with your decision-making.
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Old 01-10-2009, 17:57   #19
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Originally Posted by James S View Post
Not sure why I'm even posting this except that I hate for this thread to turn into a personal attack platform
Same here, James! And I'm not a Cat person either. Nor do I read the threads but I have scanned a few.

Why the hell are he whackers here still on about this company if theres only 4 boats been built?

If you want a decent boat (one, 2 or 3 hulls, maybe even 4 hulls) go to someone who is churning them out! Beneteau Group - Beneteau, Jenenau & Lagoon, springs to mind.

If you want an exotic one-off boat then go to a mind reader. Because they will look between your ears, laugh, and then ask you for $100 because you're rich and stupid!
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Old 01-10-2009, 18:46   #20
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I concur fully Mark. I find the posts by a selected few on this forum without merit as they repost unsubstantiated blogs of others for the singular purpose of discrediting a builder of only a few craft.

I don't need their help to protect me from "THem". Plenty enough misrepresentation and quality issues to go around. The equipment that I design build as one-off have a punchlist of 400 to 500 items. There is nothing surprising here.

The bashers could do better by offering solutions rather than complain of issues they do not have first hand knowledge of the details or the final resolution. Hearsay is not persuasive.

Let's add some real value to discussion like how to improve a QA on one-off or limited production designs. Maybe we all could benefit from that.

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Old 01-10-2009, 19:59   #21
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I think its time to close this thread. Please do not start a similar thread that bashes a manufacturer with unsubstantiated accusations. This is not the forum for these types of threads.


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