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Old 01-12-2013, 09:48   #16
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

I bought my seaworthy project cat 18 months ago and still have 3 months to go, working weekends and a few weeks of vacation. 3 months seems unrealistic, even if you are going to work on it full time. Salvage and sell the mast, boom, and furler and cut up the rest. But you or the person in the video sound quite optimistic, using words like "elbow grease", so it sounds like you have made up your mind. Good Luck.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:14   #17
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

You would be ahead of the curve to take the lines off of that boat, and go build another one that looks just like her.

Then run like hell.

Where the paint has flaked off, the resin is cooked out of the cloth. You've got a lot of grinding and repair work to do, to get back to plywood and re-do the glass job on the topsides. Once you get back to plywood, the wood is going to be wet and rotten in places.

Deconstructing, reconstructing, and re-fairing a boat with unknown build quality and methods takes an amount of time. Cleaning to get ready to take it apart, taking it apart and assessing the condition.

Quite a few plywood boat builders believe they don't need screws and bolts to hold them together with a skin of fiberglass, so they use steel screws and bolts to hold them together while the glue sets, and abandon them in place. This means your de-construction process is somewhat more difficult, as you won't just rabbet out a place with a router and plop in a new piece of plywood... Then fiberglassing and fairing.

Get a good surveyor, and an out of the water survey done of the boat. Moisture meters, core samples... Pull out a through hull fitting and see how she was put together.

Even if it costs you 2k, its a drop in the bucket compared to what you are about to spend.

By the way, the front crossbeam looks bent.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:37   #18
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

And I quote.... 0:48 in the video...

"The deck is strong in many areas..."

1. If you put $3,000 in glass/core/paint.... The boat will be worth $1500 on the market...

2. If you want your full time job for the next 2 years to be "cat restorer".... Grab it... (plus you will need a 2nd full time job for funding said project)

3. If you do... I predict that your posts will be about 25% of all CF activity... We won't mind.... But simply saying...

4. I would seriously research previous posts on "running a dive/charter business with a one off wood core glassed cat that is worth $1500..."

Flying out to see it will only add $400 to how much it is going to cost you to get rid of the boat...

Not trying to be mean... just save you from what would be a serious mistake for the majority of the sailing crowd.... You may be the exception that makes it work...
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:46   #19
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

As someone who recently took on a restoration project, in the same neighborhood as that one, I'll share my experience in hopes it sheds some light on what to expect...

I bought a 63 piver, that was pro built in the UK, but has been sitting under a shed for 25+ years. I looked her over twice, noting several soft spots I'd have to investigate.

That was in April.

It is now December, and I'm just about to re-launch her after finding lots of annoying little issues. I still have to step/rig the mast, find a suitable outboard, and do all the interior, electronics(minimal) and plumbing(again only one faucet)

It has taken considerable time, doing everything myself(with a back ground in carpentry and fiberglass) and, has cost more than expected - without the expense of a yard/electric/haul in/outs.

Wood/epoxy boats are easy to repair, but can be hard to find all the little things that need to be done. Wet wood behind fiberglass sounds solid, for example. In fact, rotten wood behind fiberglass feels solid until you poke it with a screwdriver... Delamination from exposure to water(sinking/rain/leaks) and then left to cook in the sun is another concern I'd have.

As is typical with boats, sometimes it's not the big jobs that cost the most. I reckon, once I'm floating, with all my rigging already paid for, and all the bottom/hull work done by me, even for a radically simple set up, I'm still looking at over $4000 just to get all the parts(not including a new outboard) and minimum safety equipment done. That doesn't include any labor that I may need for the fiddly electric bits, or whatever else. And, that's not even beginning to go into the extra certifications, equipment, etc., you'll need to charter it...

BUT - would I do it again? You bet. She may be outdated, the object of ridicule by some sailors, but she is appreciated by others, and suits me and my needs perfectly. I love a project, and a challenge. On top of that, I enjoy owning a unique boat, that I will know inside and out, for "those" special moments, and I enjoy owning a piece of sailing history, rather than a mass produced product(not that there is anything wrong with that either, of course.)

If I were you, I'd get someone impartial to at least look at her as is, even if it is only to give you a list of what needs doing.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:55   #20
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

So looking in the Cheap thread, this was quoted by Craig,
Quote:
I just spoke with the current owner of this boat and he estimates it needs about 10 sheets of plywood replaced
So if he admits 10 sheet of plywood need replaced, that means all of it needs replaced,
and thus this boat is floating junk.
If you want to work hard and have a clean slate to customize, come join me herding cats.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:36   #21
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

Thank you guys for your input. Of course this appeals to the dreamer in me, so the dose of reality is much appreciated. sounds like at the very best I would have to expect grinding most if not all of the boat down to bare ply, then replacing alot of said ply then reglassing/painting entire boat. This isn't too far off from what I expected when I started thinking about this. I've read a few articles on lifespan of rigging/mast, and I'm wondering what I can expect as to the condition of that. I see a value in this since it does have what seems to be a good rig. it has sails (I'm assuming at least good enough for day sailing, prob need new or newer for blue water) and it does have ,from what i can tell with limited info, a good design/build. All that being said, is the rigging, the frame/partial skin and the design of the boat worth something? does getting that at a reasonable price put me ahead if I was to try and build a boat from scratch? from a builders perspective, probably not. but from a time/cost perspective, possibly. even if I'm sitting at anchor, installing hatches, running wires, painting decks, building a galley. and even if I'm searching craigslist and going to boat swaps ( how i spent most of my childhood, I swear), I'd still be on MY boat, in the water, for what I hope would be around 30k... now this isnt set in stone obviously, so I looking up and down the east coast for other suitable projects. If you guys happen to see something or know of something, please let me know. And seriously, thank you again for all your input. no matter pro or con, that's why I joined this site.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:48   #22
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
So looking in the Cheap thread, this was quoted by Craig,


So if he admits 10 sheet of plywood need replaced, that means all of it needs replaced,
and thus this boat is floating junk.
If you want to work hard and have a clean slate to customize, come join me herding cats.

I looked at your site by the way, I understand your logic, and to a degree it is sound thinking. The one thing you dont take into account though, is the human factor. Something I have learned in 20 years in construction. Any time you have to deal with someone else, there is a great potential for loss of efficiency. Be it financial, family, personal or availability itself, there will always be some sort of issue which causes a lull in productivity. As this issue accumulates over the span of your project, does it overcome the advantage you gained by partnering up? That's something you will only know once you are done and able to look back on accurate records. You might be surprised at the results. Pick your partners very very very carefully. I have had both good and bad experiences in this area. much easier to kick a guy off a job site than it is to kick him and his half finished boat out of a yard.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:28   #23
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

Nick, it sounds like you are talking yourself into the project, so all I'll add is be careful, and be very thorough. I found a lot of rot in places I didn't originally think to look, and more than I thought in the places I did look.

Good thing with wood is that it's easy to work with. With a construction background, you should be fine. It simply depends on where the problems are, and if you can get to them all while floating, and if they are structural - ie holding the old girl together.

I still think having someone impartial look her over is a good idea. 3rd set of eyes as it were.

Also, if you're willing to spend 30k, why not just get something like a Wharram that's ready to go? They're perfect for charters, and even easier to fix...
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:58   #24
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

twinzer. I hate Wharrams. just never liked the way they looked or sailed. I'm still definitely keeping my eyes open for other boats, unfortunately with what I want in size and cost, the only choices i see are morgans or irwins, which clearly suck cause they are missing a hull. Not to mention that they are not really considered "blue water". The only monohulls I'm looking at must have an aft cabin. I'm not cruising in a v berth. same with tris. not doing the wing bed bs.... I'm going to wait for more pics/video from the cat to see if its even worth sending a surveyor out to it. meanwhile I'm educating myself on glass/wood repair, cost to outfit etc. was looking at this boat as a good prospect. right size/price, but it had fire damage on the inside, and I learned that glass has unseen issues due to heat (ie. fire temp)... so the search continues.
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Old 04-12-2013, 15:22   #25
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

I'm concerned when I read "fix the ply and fibreglass it" or words to this effect. If you're talking about external glassing on ply there is going to be a LOT of work required to get the finish complete to a decent quality.
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Old 04-12-2013, 15:29   #26
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pirate Re: Advice on project catamaran

I think the Tiki's sail pretty damn good having owned a couple.. admittedly the older designs are heavy and slow but the stitch/glue/epoxy and glass method keeps these Tiki's light and fast..
And the 38ft Schooner rigged Tiki looks lovely to me.. but there ya go.. be a boring world if everyone had the same tastes..
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Old 04-12-2013, 15:30   #27
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

I'v been a wood worker for 45 years, fiberglass work for 16, boat addict for ever. Run away!!!!! Just saying. If you have the wherewithal to dump $30k into that you would be a fool to not seek out a ready to go boat on your own coast. But then the old saying of a "fool and their money" isn't still around cause it ain't true. I'm telling ya, fiberglass and plywood. RUN AWAY!!!!
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Old 04-12-2013, 17:04   #28
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

hey Nick,

The Wharram was just a suggestion, of course. There are other twin canoe type of cat out there that may suit you better. I just thought you were looking for that simplicity, and thought the open deck would be better suited to day chartering - after running a charter operation in the Bahamas.

There was a Crowther cat on yachtworld that looked fast, light, and nimble the last time I looked. Seems like being vigilant on Craigs, and EBAY can get you some good deals if you are quick with the cash.

Tris seem to be getting more and more geared to racing, but I found some 27 - 30 ones for around 30k, but they are small inside. If you can find an older one, over 30' you may get one with a large fwd cabin like my Piver. Otherwise, yeah, you're essentially living in the salon....

PS - I'll be in the Cocoa area looking for a slip the next couple weeks, and will let you know if there is any local info on this boat.
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Old 04-12-2013, 17:08   #29
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

Also, if you're willing to spend that much, and if you have the time, why not just build something?
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:35   #30
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Re: Advice on project catamaran

Consider also where you will be keeping the boat, how much that will cost, and the possibility that the project could drag on for longer than you expect. List all the tasks to be completed to get an idea what you're in for.
Having partially sunk, it is likely that the ply core got wet. For how long, who knows? Inspect the repaired areas for rot by poking with an awl from the inside.
My opinion is that it is beyond economical repair.
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