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Old 23-09-2008, 13:52   #46
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It does not seem like a good idea to generalize about all cats and all monos. Every design is different. Some cats are very comfortable, and some are not. The same with monos.
Also, some cats are very fast (faster than most monos). However, most production cruising cats are not. It really comes down to the particular boat.
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Old 23-09-2008, 14:15   #47
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Originally Posted by rickm505 View Post
I disagree with this. There is much more data available these days and it just doesn't substantiate the monos are safer argument.

Queens Birthday Storm.

All monos dismasted and deaths were incurred. Two cats survived with minimal damage and no loss of life. This is the only documented monster storm (100 ft waves, hurricane winds) where both types of boats were caught in the center. At the very least, catamarans should be given more credit for survivability.

Let's not forget sandy daugherty's NTSB data on boat loses. Cats were at least even with monos.
How can you disagree with a 'feeling'?

And there is a lot of incorrect information about that storm drifting around here. Yes some multis did survive just as some monos did. A lot came down to the people on board doing or not doing certain things. Beside that was far from unusual so hardly a good example of anything really.

There are numerous examples of cock-up and/or deaths that can be used to try and say one is safer than another but many (most) have little to do with the hull number.

Hurricane winds are only 60kts and I've been in them in both monos and multis without drama. I'd argue that if you go offshore and not ready to handle that you should stay ashore. Being a good Boy Scout we were well prepared so I'm going to argue that the 'safety thing' is relative. Have a look around and see how many cock-ups there have been with perfectly fine boats. A large majority of cock-ups are due to decisions made by the crew and have little to do with the boat or number of hulls. Personally I find it very hard for anyone to argue either way that one is safer than another due to this.

Passage speed wise. I've done NZ to the Pac Islands numerous times. 1000-1300 miles depending on which Island. It's faster on a multi. A couple of times a couple of days faster when the winds are favourable.
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Old 23-09-2008, 14:20   #48
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risk assessment monohull versus catamaran

here's one assessment, I tried being objective, monos being more resistant to impact due to heavier construction versus the impact of the breach....
monohullers let me know if you think this is a fair comparison.Risk.doc

It's a little ugly, export from a spreadsheet to a doc format to allow uploading.

A risk of M0/C1 would be monohull with zero risk and catamaran with a one, where lower is better. The probability and impact are then multiplied together to calculate the total risk.
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Old 23-09-2008, 14:23   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnflakbait View Post
It does not seem like a good idea to generalize about all cats and all monos. Every design is different. Some cats are very comfortable, and some are not. The same with monos.
Also, some cats are very fast (faster than most monos). However, most production cruising cats are not. It really comes down to the particular boat.
This sounds about right to me. Some cats have some advantages over some mono's, and vice versa. You just have to choose depending on your priorities.
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Old 23-09-2008, 14:29   #50
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Nope, call me a dumbarse. Can't quite understand that Schooner.

Can you explain it a bit using only little words
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Old 23-09-2008, 14:39   #51
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Schooner, you are being a bit kind to yourself by just labeling that as ugly!!!

GMAC - schooners risk assessment in little words:

catamaran safe - mono not so safe
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Old 23-09-2008, 14:42   #52
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Jeff H has written some good stuff on relative comfort (any many other technical subjects), including his contributions at: Seasickness

“Back to the original topic, in US Navy studies it was found that seasickness can be triggered differently in different people. In this study there were an equal number of people who are primarily affected by quick motion but who can live with large amounts of slower motion as compared to an equal number of people who are comfortable with quick motion but who develop seasickness when exposed to large amounts of slower motions. There is still an equally large group that can't tolerate either quick motion or large amounts of slower motions.

In this study the people who can tolerate quick motions have the best chance of accommodating over time. You will read anecdotal accounts of people who experience seasickness only on the first couple days at sea but then are fine. That group usually fall in the category of people who are comfortable with quick motion but who develop seasickness when exposed to large amounts of slower motions.

Depending on your personal characteristics, you may be more prone to seasickness on a Cat than a monohull. (I fall in that category) A study of the charter companies a few years back suggested that the number of people who cannot tolerate the motion of a catamaran is fairly large, although still significantly smaller than the figures for a monohull. One interesting side note was that a fairly large percent of those who reported seasickness on Cats indicated that they did not experience seasickness on Monohulls. If you are thinking about going the multihull route I would suggest spending some time on one first. You may be in the majority who thrive on the Catamaran motions or you may be in that smaller group for whom a Cat's motion is a killer...”

Jeff
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Old 23-09-2008, 14:46   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
I am truly amazed at some of the rediculous comments made here in the multi forum. I asked a serious question on another Forum just recently. Why is it that Multi's don't head to windward very well. We had a really great serious discussion about the subject and I learned a lot. It's about time some here hardened up a bit and realise that here are some posters that are actually posting some real questions, not "picking on" multi hull owners
Even though it contains a huge generalisation, I believe that question would be sensibly discussed in this forum.

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......I only have one multi I like the shape of.
Just curious, which multi do you like?
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Old 23-09-2008, 14:58   #54
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Yeah, is there a way to upload spreadsheets? The site doesn't like XLS files.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
Schooner, you are being a bit kind to yourself by just labeling that as ugly!!!

GMAC - schooners risk assessment in little words:

catamaran safe - mono not so safe
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Old 23-09-2008, 15:10   #55
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three ways.

select your cells and convert them into a table in word.

convert the xls to a jpg using print screen and a graphics package to trim.

set up print area, then print into a pdf converter such as primopdf
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Old 23-09-2008, 15:10   #56
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LITTLE? I thought that was brail!
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Old 23-09-2008, 16:02   #57
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Having experienced several big sea events now, I can not imagine taking a fast flat huled mono through what I experienced. I wold love to know what a cat would do. Anyone???
I think previous threads have spoken to that and it seems that for many cat owners "big" seas and "big" winds are when they end up hanging on a drogue in 3m seas and 30-40 knots of wind - whereas for some of us those are relatively benign conditions which we expect to be able to sail in with no problems whatsoever. As I've mentioned before there are ever only 1 or 2 cats in our marina and they are a mobile feast in that they soon get relocated across into the shelter of the inner Sounds (but I expect that some cat owners who have never been here will, as they have done before, soon tell me that I am wrong in my observation of that phenomenum in my own home waters ).

That does not mean that I don't like cats just that I think all boats are compromises, whether sail, power, mono or multi, none are purrrfect and among the capable of each, each is best at somethings or another when compared to the others.

If I lived in the benign tropics or subtropics where, putting aside hurricanes which no one intends sailing in, it rarely blows more than 30 knots (and for the disbelievers I have spent more than a considerable amount of time in the tropics and subtropics) I would have a cat. Where I live now I would have a "capable" (note that word) mono, but there again on some days when its blowing 50-60 knots (or even worse just 25 knots but gusting to 60+) and pouring with rain I think that a nice big power boat with heated wheelhouse would be what I prefer.

And that is what I think observation tells us, multi's with their advantages of more spacious interiors (but that not for tris), lotsa windows, big deck, etc for their length are most commonly homed in the tropics and subtropics. As one moves south or north away from those regions they become less common (to forestall the anxious cats - I am not saying that cats have not been in those places just that they appear not to be considered the best choice by so many. I know cats can go anywhere as can most boats eg kayaks have even made long open sea voyages in temperate regions, but doesn't make kayaks the best choice for most).

I won't point out what I consider the disadvantages of multis and the advantages of monos are 'cos they weren't asked for, and, also for the sake of good order, have found it only pays to say the nice things about multi's on here or the wrath of some of their owners descends .
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Old 23-09-2008, 16:35   #58
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Quote:
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I asked a serious question on another Forum just recently. Why is it that Multi's don't head to windward very well. .
That makes as much sense as asking why Monos are slow, not all are, it depends on the design and the sailor. A good cruising Multi can and will go well to windward, Most good tris will outpoint a mono, mine certainly will, and Cats like pescotts will outpoint CRUISING monos.

The problem alan is in the sweeping generalised nature of the questions - Why wont monos go to windward? - rather ask - which monos go well to windward, what are the design factors that allow this to happen, what are the design factors that prevent this happening?
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Old 23-09-2008, 17:28   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
GMAC - schooners risk assessment in little words:

catamaran safe - mono not so safe


Even if 100,000 of monos may prove a spreadsheet not quite right

A boat, ANY boat is only as safe as the dick on the stick. Anyone who can argue against that is one-eyed.
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Old 23-09-2008, 17:34   #60
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That makes as much sense as asking why Monos are slow, not all are, it depends on the design and the sailor. A good cruising Multi can and will go well to windward, Most good tris will outpoint a mono, mine certainly will, and Cats like pescotts will outpoint CRUISING monos.

The problem alan is in the sweeping generalised nature of the questions - Why wont Multis go to windward? - rather ask - which Multis go well to windward, what are the design factors that allow this to happen, what are the design factors that prevent this happening?
Had to fix a typo in my previous message
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