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Old 28-09-2008, 05:59   #181
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BY "we", whom do you mean?
Please feel free to interpret my statements anyway you want to. As usual.
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Old 28-09-2008, 07:00   #182
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oh come on.... one of the points made earlier is that mono guys love stirring the pot, so to speak.

I would imagine that the reason a separate area for multi guys was established, was to have a place where multi owners could discuss their boats. Not defend them.

Forgive us if it's not appreciated that mono guys enjoy turning this area into a war zone.
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Old 28-09-2008, 07:08   #183
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Please play nice children.
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Old 28-09-2008, 07:12   #184
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LOL

Gord, I thought I was!!
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Old 28-09-2008, 11:56   #185
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Please play nice children.
I am
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Old 28-09-2008, 12:41   #186
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OK, I noticed the emoticons, so I hope you're just teasing Grampa.
I might have said, please play "nicer".
I regret the need for smileys, but ...
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Old 28-09-2008, 13:01   #187
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There are only two or maybe three here that cause a problem. Why do you guys constantly think you are being "picked on"? Why do you guys continually think you have to defend a multi? Why do you guys constantly think mono guys are out to attack you and your multis with any comment that has the slightest tilt toward negative. You even threw a hissey fit sometime back and created your own multiforum site. I see that went well. Sheesh guys, get a life.
I think it has been made very clear here and in the past that each design has positives and negatives. There are good multi's and good mono's and bad in both. The are positives to Multi's and Monos and negatives. If there was one affordable perfect ion every aspect boat, everyone would have one and no other manufacturer would exist. But that is not the real world. There are different boats for different folks. Chill out with the reasilation that a Multi has it's merrits and wil suit certain people. Chill out with the realisation that some folks are happy with mono's because it suits them and their crusiing lifestyle.

Now aside from that above. I was having an interesting discussion with a guy from Bundaburg last week. We were talking of Marina prices and he was looking at bringin his boat back here to NZ. Why? because Multies are chocking upt he marinas in OZ. And the Marinas are putting up the prices due to the fact that a Multi takes up two berths. So the Marinas are discussing do they charge each Multi for two berths, or put the prices up for everyone to cover the fact that they can only fit half as many boats in the marina. I think it highly unfair that a mono should compensate for a multi's space.
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Old 28-09-2008, 13:33   #188
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There are only two or maybe three here that cause a problem. Why do you guys constantly think you are being "picked on"? Why do you guys continually think you have to defend a multi? Why do you guys constantly think mono guys are out to attack you and your multis with any comment that has the slightest tilt toward negative. You even threw a hissey fit sometime back and created your own multiforum site. I see that went well. Sheesh guys, get a life.
I think it has been made very clear here and in the past that each design has positives and negatives. There are good multi's and good mono's and bad in both. The are positives to Multi's and Monos and negatives. If there was one affordable perfect ion every aspect boat, everyone would have one and no other manufacturer would exist. But that is not the real world. There are different boats for different folks. Chill out with the reasilation that a Multi has it's merrits and wil suit certain people. Chill out with the realisation that some folks are happy with mono's because it suits them and their crusiing lifestyle.

Now aside from that above. I was having an interesting discussion with a guy from Bundaburg last week. We were talking of Marina prices and he was looking at bringin his boat back here to NZ. Why? because Multies are chocking upt he marinas in OZ. And the Marinas are putting up the prices due to the fact that a Multi takes up two berths. So the Marinas are discussing do they charge each Multi for two berths, or put the prices up for everyone to cover the fact that they can only fit half as many boats in the marina. I think it highly unfair that a mono should compensate for a multi's space.
Good points Alan, I agree.
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Old 28-09-2008, 18:39   #189
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Now aside from that above. I was having an interesting discussion with a guy from Bundaburg last week. We were talking of Marina prices and he was looking at bringin his boat back here to NZ. Why? because Multies are chocking upt he marinas in OZ. And the Marinas are putting up the prices due to the fact that a Multi takes up two berths. So the Marinas are discussing do they charge each Multi for two berths, or put the prices up for everyone to cover the fact that they can only fit half as many boats in the marina. I think it highly unfair that a mono should compensate for a multi's space.
Interesting, since I was recently having a similar discussion about marina space and prices with the manager of one of our local marinas. What seemed odd to me was that in several cases there were multi's taking up two berths, and yet almost every end berth had (and still has) a mono in it.

I Asked why that was, since it seemed obvious to me to move the multi's into end berths where they would only occupy one space, which would free up a lot of room. The answer was that the owners of those boats had requested end berths because they didn't feel capable of berthing alongside another boat.

So they are tying up almost all the end berths, forcing the multi's to be allocated double berths, and causing a space shortage all round - simply because they can't drive their boats.

And they get the end berth for a cheaper rate than a multi would, even though they are using exactly the same berth.

Is that fair?

Moving a boat from Bundaberg to New Zealand just because of marina costs seems a bit extreme to me, and frankly unrealistic - there are many places he could moor his boat very inexpensively, a lot closer than NZ.
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Old 28-09-2008, 18:42   #190
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So the Marinas are discussing do they charge each Multi for two berths, or put the prices up for everyone to cover the fact that they can only fit half as many boats in the marina. I think it highly unfair that a mono should compensate for a multi's space.

Wow! I can't believe that will get through. I mean the rates hve to be public. If all boats are charged equally by LOA and no account for beam it will be obvious if a cat is taking two slots.

Maybe 1.5X is a nice break for a cat guy but if the marina is full it really should be 2X.

Actually, when I think about it, maybe the cat should be charged for the LOA of 2 hulls. A 50 footer is really 100 feet of hull right?
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Old 28-09-2008, 18:50   #191
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Wow! I can't believe that will get through. I mean the rates hve to be public. If all boats are charged equally by LOA and no account for beam it will be obvious if a cat is taking two slots.

Maybe 1.5X is a nice break for a cat guy but if the marina is full it really should be 2X.

Actually, when I think about it, maybe the cat should be charged for the LOA of 2 hulls. A 50 footer is really 100 feet of hull right?
In the Caribbean, multihulls are typically charged 1.5x the published rate. The bottom line is that boats should be charged by the amount of space they take up. Once marinas make dedicated slips for Multihulls then they can charge by the size of that slip, compared to other slips.

Some full keeled monohulls are hard to handle in marinas so that is a real problem. My old double-ender was a bitch to back up.
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Old 28-09-2008, 18:56   #192
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Wow! I can't believe that will get through. I mean the rates hve to be public. If all boats are charged equally by LOA and no account for beam it will be obvious if a cat is taking two slots.

Maybe 1.5X is a nice break for a cat guy but if the marina is full it really should be 2X.

Actually, when I think about it, maybe the cat should be charged for the LOA of 2 hulls. A 50 footer is really 100 feet of hull right?
Cats aren't charged the same rate as mono's as it is. Typically it's 1.5x or more. Around here you pay for the size of the berth you have, not the size of the boat. If you want a 50 foot berth for a 30 foot boat, you pay the 50 foot rate.

Mono's get end berths cheaper than cats do, even though it's the exact same berth. In our local marina mono's are in almost every end berth.
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Old 28-09-2008, 19:23   #193
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Two thoughts

First I agree, if we take up more room, charge us for it.

In a related area, here in Florida there was a tremendous slip shortage 1-2 years ago as condo developers had bought up marinas and took them private. Today, there's hardly a problem finding a slip at all.
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Old 29-09-2008, 00:40   #194
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Moving a boat from Bundaberg to New Zealand just because of marina costs seems a bit extreme to me, and frankly unrealistic - there are many places he could moor his boat very inexpensively, a lot closer than NZ.
What sort of number are we talking here 44C? Must be large to swap countries over them.

Here Multi's tend to get end berths as most of the others just won't fit a decent sized multi.

NZ has only recently taken on Multis in a big way. 10-15 years ago they were pretty much the realm of the long haired green crop growing hippies from the outer islands. Most were also home build shockers sailed by idiots who tipped Piver tris up in 20 kts of wind. These days they are growing in numbers fast and some are mighy flash indeed. Both power and sail. We have had a strong following in smaller (38ft and less) more race like multis for a very long time though.

Just sussing Westhaven marina, 2000 odd boats and the largest in the Sth hemisphere.

12mt Mono - 542.00
12mt Cat - 837.00

16mt Mono - 868.00
16mt Cat - 1240.00
NZ$ per month and Cats should read Multi even though Tri's aren't seen here that often in any numbers.

It does appear that looking at the rates, monos are monos and multis are multis. So I'm assuming that even if a multi did fit in a mono space they still charge more. Not sure I like that idea really.

On piles multis pay 1.5-1.6 times more. Piles being a stick on the ground each end rather than a walk down marina.

You would think in an ideal world everyone should pay for the square footage they take up. There are some big fat monos these days.
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Old 29-09-2008, 01:54   #195
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You would think in an ideal world everyone should pay for the square footage they take up. There are some big fat monos these days.
That's what they are doing in the Med now which is fair for everyone. As you say a lot of modern mono's are getting beamier and therefore paying 2x or 1.5x for a multi isn't quite right. The charging rate on mine in the Canaries will be for 106m2 (when I get there) as I have already reserved a berth. They work it out at around 0.45 per m2 per day less discounts for longer stays. Still bloody expensive though!
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