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Old 25-09-2008, 18:04   #151
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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
There simply weren't many cats being built 30 years ago.

But a member here has one 44 years old, and still sailing fast -

Most likely built of plywood too. (Can you verify that Tnflakbait?) You would imagine modern composite boats would be at least as long lasting.
That's right cruisingcat. Aita Pe'ape'a was built in 1964 in Venice Beach California out of plywood and spruce with glass over it all. She was fast back then, and is fast now. There are very few cruising cats made today that are 33' that can keep up with her! CSK was the true spearhead of the Multihull revolution, and while progress has been made with regard to designs and materials, much is owed to these pioneers.
The boat has many thousands of miles under her hulls, having cruised the Carribean, mex, South America, etc. Wood is very strong, light, and long lasting. In January this old boat will be heading to the South Pacific on another voyage!

Back on topic...
I have cruised on monohulls a lot and would do it again. As far as safety is concerned I think there are tradeoffs with monos and cats. They come out about equal in my eyes.

The motion of cats is jerky but not as rolly. This is a preference thing but my wife likes the cat.

One big difference is the interior layout. Everyone on board a mono is in one big hull. This is good for hanging out. Cats are more spread out. Thats better for privacy.

I would take a nice mono over a condomaran e.g. Lagoon, but right now I would be looking for another cat if I was boat shopping.

BTW... Speed IS a major advantage of cats, and has a lot to do with my own interest in them. But not all cats are fast. And not all monos are slow. But the fastest cats are WAY faster than the fastest Monos. (Just wanted to poke the coals) hahaha
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Old 25-09-2008, 18:11   #152
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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Are we defensive, or are we just trying to achieve some balance?
Trying to answer this from the perspective of one who is happy to move freely between boat types of all kinds, including dinghies, little power boats and as well as the others I mentioned in my last post - and I really enjoy doing sea trials in big boats, clients let me ride their other boats all day when is spare time too.

YES, there is a big tendency for multihull owners to be very defensive.

That is not to say some mono owners are not also defensive nor that there are not some multi and mono owners who deliberately light the touch paper of those who are defensive. Ever wondered why the touch paper types enjoy visiting the multi forums, thats where the defensive ones tend to be.

John
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Old 25-09-2008, 18:12   #153
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This is the problem here, people assume that everyone elses needs and desires are the same as their own. Closed eyes syndrome. For example (and not intentionally picking on the poster I quote, just using as an example) -



No, in our normal cruising areas the problem is actually mostly one of finding water shallow enough to be able to safely anchor in .



Why would I want to beach my boat ? The boat is lifted when necessary, usually 2 yearly. I get a yard to do the dirty work (being the antifouling that usually at very little cost over the materials). Besides there is not enough tidal range most of where we sail to beach even a 500mm draft boat else it is, errr, rather rocky. If I had a cat and sufficient tidal range I still would not beach it, I'm not that sort.



Actually no . We ourselves do not sail in cyclone regions and have no intention of ever doing so during the recognised risk months.

So all the multihull advantages quoted as being important to ALL in the referenced post do not apply to me in any way at all. I won't get onto other issues such as rolling at anchor (we seem pretty immune and I have seen even professional crews turning green during anchoring trials of even big power cats from the high GM induced sharp motions in some seas - whoops I just said I wasn't going to stray )

So you see, not everyones needs are the same as ones own. I find it amusing that some think everyone fits the same shoe or that one type of boat/material or another is the ultimate solution. Sometimes I think I would prefer a nice big power boat; our current boat is steel (not your average backyard horror but professionally custom built I hasten to add), at times I think it would have been better in aluminium, or in a kevlar, carbon, foam composite; our current boat is a mono and I know (and have said here) that if I lived in some places elsewhere I would have a cat instead - do you ever have such thoughts? Perhaps not.

It all gets down to how much vision and experience one has. Those with narrow or closed minds, or limited experience soon show themselves when they start talking as if everyone elses needs and desires must be the same as their own - that applies to all, whether multi, cat, power or sail, fine finished or well worn, etc, etc boat owners.
So you NEVER intend to sail anywhere other than your usual cruising grounds?

Some friends beached their boat to inspect it for damage after running onto a reef. Thankfully there was virtually none, but being able to dry the boat out did save them from having to pay for a haul out. They aren't neccessarily "that sort" either, whatever that means.

There are such things as out of season cyclones.

And I never said these thing were important to everyone. But if a boat can anchor in anything from 2 feet to 100 feet it obviously has more options than a boat that cant anchor in less than 6 feet.
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Old 25-09-2008, 18:15   #154
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Gmac, oneof the reasons I built my Simpson Inspiration 10 was My wife could see out the windows while in the galley and sitting in the saloon, no way was it like a cave anywhere inside, but that is a thing with Simpsons designs. I raced it,it pointed well and surprized the top mono sailors. On the downside it was pathetic in winds under 8 knots, would go sideways faster than forward so I built a big deep daggerboard which helped but didn't cure. It was a bit too heavily built but good for cruising. We did a 185 mile race here a few years back in 17hrs, so she could get along given the right cond. You're pretty tough over in NZ, very hardy, like our Tassie friends similar conditions, windy and wet. As one getsa bit older one likes it a bit warmer, a few days of cold and I ache! Good luck, come over and get spoiled.
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Old 25-09-2008, 18:25   #155
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Trying to answer this from the perspective of one who is happy to move freely between boat types of all kinds, including dinghies, little power boats and as well as the others I mentioned in my last post - and I really enjoy doing sea trials in big boats, clients let me ride their other boats all day when is spare time too.

YES, there is a big tendency for multihull owners to be very defensive.

That is not to say some mono owners are not also defensive nor that there are not some multi and mono owners who deliberately light the touch paper of those who are defensive. Ever wondered why the touch paper types enjoy visiting the multi forums, thats where the defensive ones tend to be.

John
And the thread continues down the well worn path. Question the seaworthiness of the boats, and then call their owners defensive when they speak up....

I'm quite sure that if someone went into the monohull forum and started opening dozens of threads about sinking, or rolling, or "why are these boats so slow", there would be just as many "defensive" types.

I just don't see any point in doing it.

Anyway, at least we now know why you spend so much time in the multihull section.
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Old 25-09-2008, 18:25   #156
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We don't see entire threads devoted to stating that a particular stretch of water is so rough monohulls dare not even venture there. There was even a post in a different thread(by the same ex moderator) stating that "several multihulls were lost" in the Queen's birthday storm.
I think you are referring to me there from an earlier thread.

I did not say there was "a particular stretch of water is so rough multihulls dare not even venture there" referring to the passage from NZ to the Pacific tropics. I said words to the effect that it was a widely held view here that multihulls had a poor reputation on that passage.

I did say that several multihulls were "lost" in the Queens Birthday storm. I used the word along the lines that they were abandoned which is a suitable interpretation for most professional mariners. The fact that one was later found and salvaged and the other deliberatly run down are entirely different matters - I did try to clarify my meaning later but an number of you would not hear of it. Furthermore, a number of you continue to carry on as if all the distressed monos where never seen again (but Ramtha was, Ramtha, was, Ramtha was, ) whereas, as I have pointed out most have turned up having drifted until aground or one salvaged at sea - who knows where the remaining two are (and is known that the crew of Quartemaster were lost). The fact is a great many lost boats turn up again.

See, you are too defensive, even to construing other peoples comments or the passed on opinions of others who are held in high regard in the marine community. Goodness, some of you even seem to know more about how many cats there are in my home marina than I do myself going by the reaction my comments about that drew .

John
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Old 25-09-2008, 18:28   #157
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So you NEVER intend to sail anywhere other than your usual cruising grounds?
For goodness sake, read my post. I made it quite clear that in some places elsewhere I would have a multihull instead. In fact in other places I might have a power boat (in fact I find power boats are very nice in the benign tropics).

I won't bother with your rest, just read what I have said without mangling it to suit yourself or regarding it as something other than comment from someone whose opinions are usually paid for on such matters.
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Old 25-09-2008, 18:31   #158
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I think you are referring to me there from an earlier thread.

I did not say there was "a particular stretch of water is so rough monohulls dare not even venture there" referring to the passage from NZ to the Pacific tropics. I said words to the effect that it was a widely held view here that multihulls had a poor reputation on that passage.

I did say that several multihulls were "lost" in the Queens Birthday storm. I used the word along the lines that they were abandoned which is a suitable interpretation for most professional mariners. The fact that one was later found and salvaged and the other deliberatly run down are entirely different matters - I did try to clarify my meaning later but an number of you would not hear of it. Furthermore, a number of you continue to carry on as if all the distressed monos where never seen again (but Ramtha was, Ramtha, was, Ramtha was, ) whereas, as I have pointed out most have turned up having drifted until aground or one salvaged at sea - who knows where the remaining two are (and is known that the crew of Quartemaster were lost). The fact is a great many lost boats turn up again.

See, you are too defensive, even to construing other peoples comments or the passed on opinions of others who are held in high regard in the marine community. Goodness, some of you even seem to know more about how many cats there are in my home marina than I do myself going by the reaction my comments about that drew .

John

ROFLMAO!!! Talk about DEFENSIVE!! No matey, neither of those references involved you.

One was a thread which has since been closed, about Cook's strait, and the other was several months ago.

Yeah, I'm too defensive!!! LMAO!!
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Old 25-09-2008, 18:46   #159
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No matey, neither of those references involved you.
Pleased to hear it. But the fact remains that what I say in my last post is the manner in which my comments were responded to.

The hieroglyphics in your last post lead me to believe that you are now either venturing into a language that I am not familiar with or have entered into a behaviour I want no part of. Goodbye for now.

John
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Old 25-09-2008, 19:07   #160
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Well, it would be fair to say that you'd be hard pressed to find a multi guy in a mono thread trashing monohulls. Yet it happens all the time in the multi threads. Of course we're defensive.
Actually Rick from what I have seen all this multi v's mono things is a bit peculiar to this board. Why? No idea.

One thread here a few months back which went bad after one specific post by someone. I took that same post and dropped it onto a multi thread on another board. Not a thing happened. One reply of "Yeah, whatever leadswingger' was it. None of the goings on we see here.

And I'm sure if I wanted to trawl back through this thread alone I'd be reasonably confident the multi lads will have racked up a lot more disparaging comments about monos than the other way around. Hence my 'defensive' comment.

As I've pointed out I don't have any preference generally speaking. Talking specifics of what I want to do with each boat at certain times of my yachting life I do have. Sometimes it's one hull, sometimes 2 and I even have one thing I'd love to do and that would involve a 3 hulled vessel.

I am somewhat impressed at the extreme loyalty you multi only lot have though, and that is meant as a good thing. I'm just a tad disappointed most can't or are unwilling to acknowledge that mono's do have a place, all aren't just floating death traps and peoples heads don't fall off if you lean over It's not something you see with mono people, they are quite willing to say multis are actually OK Yes I did use a couple of 'extremes' there.

And I'm impressed this thread has gone so well, when I 1st saw it I though '20 posts and it'll go bad'. Damn pleased I'm wrong, haven't we all done very well.
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Old 25-09-2008, 19:13   #161
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Yawn..... Ok guys..... we're all at an impass.... These threads usually end up with a lot of bad feelings and unresolved issues.

Let's quit while we're ahead?

One more comment for Gmac. If I decided to have a look around the Artic, I wouldn't do it in a catamaran. Gimmee a nice warm monohull.
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Old 25-09-2008, 19:16   #162
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Gmac,

You have a R930.
And you have 930 posts!
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Old 25-09-2008, 19:48   #163
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I concur with what you say GMac (really just trying to drag you into my apparant place of ill repute on this forum ).

If only people would not rush to ill based conclusions about the intentions of others and what they say here just because the one making the comments currently sails a mono. Gawd, how can I reword that cos someone sure as hell is going to read that, in order to suit their own purposes, as if I am saying that there are no mono stirrers around .

A number of times I have now been accused of being a stirrer on this forum including now in this thread, (and complaints along those lines even made to the moderators ), that even though I have pointed out many times I have an interest in all boat types, have never rubbished multis in any way and saying in other situations for me they would be my boat of choice.

In fact it has been pointed out several times, including by another, that among other things I have worked quite a bit with biggish power cats (including managing design, build and commissioning) and that is a fact. Some alert ones have picked that up just from the things I say. It is because of that interest that I am attracted to this forum, not by any opportunity for malice (although for those with malice this sure is a happy hunting ground ). But I have said that before, apparantly it is not relevant, seems one must comply with the faith if one wants to be here .
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Old 25-09-2008, 20:09   #164
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Let's quit while we're ahead?

One more comment for Gmac. If I decided to have a look around the Artic, I wouldn't do it in a catamaran. Gimmee a nice warm monohull.
I reckon this post should become a sticky - LOL...


1 - As I stated I am reading heavy weather tactics - One contention is that under sea anchor on a bridle a cat will be more stable because of the spread - seems to make a lot of sense. Safer? I don't know.

2 - There is no replacement for displacement. Oil tankers are not as far as I can tell multihull. Barges are not multihull. You wanna carry stuff it's probably a mono.

The reason I would guess is that on a hauling vehicle you don't really need space between the hulls that is not useful for the purpose (hauling) and creates forces between the hulls that have to be dealt with.

All boats for all reasons...

Find me a multihull site that isn't talking about weight and I'll buy the virtual beer.

So pound for pound - same LOA - what would one pick to haul stuff? A 50 foot cat or a 50 foot mono?

BTW - As stated a million times - I love cats and will own one someday.

***********

As an aside - If you take the "I" and "You" out of posts I reckon we'd have more intelligent conversation and less bruised egos.
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Old 25-09-2008, 20:32   #165
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Yawn..... Ok guys..... we're all at an impass.... These threads usually end up with a lot of bad feelings and unresolved issues.

Let's quit while we're ahead?

One more comment for Gmac. If I decided to have a look around the Artic, I wouldn't do it in a catamaran. Gimmee a nice warm monohull.
You're right again but hopefully wrong with the bad feel part. I think we'll all have to respectfully agree to disagree on some points. That's not always a bad thing or each thread would only be a couple of posts long and rather boring. All just part of the rich tapestry we call life.

Hopefully I haven't come across at anyone as having a go at anyone, that has never been my intention or desire.

And I was looking at a boat surrounded by ice just last week and I thought "that's 100% a bit of me", it was a nice big multi Go figure, we get all the way to here and the world turns on it's head

In a strange way I do think we are all pretty much agreeing with each other with much here. That being boats are a personal thing, multis do have some nice advantages over monos, monos have a couple over multis and a mono won't kill an organised crew any more or less than a multi will.

Tnflakbait - nice spotting and I suppose I'll now have to glue an extra 100mm on her after this post
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