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27-11-2014, 04:13
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#1
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
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A Catamaran Question
Having had the privilege of a short sail on a Gunboat a while back, and being amazed at the performance, I am wondering if a 36/40 foot Cat can be built from non carbon fibre materials that can emulate the performance without the price tag.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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27-11-2014, 04:43
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Sure, but it won't be a cruising boat. There are plenty 18-20 ft cats that can perform better than the Gunboats for WAY less money.
2 Hulls Dave
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27-11-2014, 05:09
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,479
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Some Crowther designs are fairly aggressive. You might take a look at those. Buying an existing production design will be way cheaper, fewer headaches, and radically less time than a custom build.
Like fast little beach cats, you want big SA to displacement, long skinny hulls, and light weight.
I think LightSpeed (Atlantic 44) may still be for sale...much less expensive than a Gunboat.
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27-11-2014, 05:30
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#4
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Im thinking of a cruising Cat.
I understand length and fine entry is a help for attaining speed. I need to talk with Minaret and see if a 15 knot average is possible with a 40 footer built out of GRP, in a cruising configuration......
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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27-11-2014, 05:34
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,479
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Also some Chris White Atlantic 42-44's on Yachtworld for just under $400K...not cheap, but still radically less than a GunBoat and way fast.
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27-11-2014, 05:35
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#6
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
Some Crowther designs are fairly aggressive. You might take a look at those. Buying an existing production design will be way cheaper, fewer headaches, and radically less time than a custom build.
Like fast little beach cats, you want big SA to displacement, long skinny hulls, and light weight.
I think LightSpeed (Atlantic 44) may still be for sale...much less expensive than a Gunboat.
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Im not a lover of the Crowther look. GREAT vessel but not my taste.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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27-11-2014, 05:37
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,479
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Re: A Catamaran question.
They are not pretty, but they are fast.
Chris Whites are more asthetically appealing, to my eye at least, and aggressive performers.
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27-11-2014, 05:39
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,108
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis
Im thinking of a cruising Cat.
….and see if a 15 knot average is possible with a 40 footer built out of GRP, in a cruising configuration......
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No. For the simple reason that averaging 15kts while cruising in a 40' catamaran will break everything on the boat, including your teeth.
BTW, three of us who actually own cruising cats with many years of experience on them (2Hulls owns a fast design and Belizesailor teaches catamaran sailing) have answered. How much experience do you expect Minaret to have with catamarans?
Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
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27-11-2014, 05:45
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On board
Boat: Van de Stadt 50'
Posts: 1,405
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
They are not pretty, but they are fast.
Chris Whites are more asthetically appealing, to my eye at least, and aggressive performers.
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Your mailbox is full, I cant answer you, 273201 is the answer....
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27-11-2014, 05:48
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#10
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj
No. For the simple reason that averaging 15kts while cruising in a 40' catamaran will break everything on the boat, including your teeth.
BTW, three of us who actually own cruising cats with many years of experience on them (2Hulls owns a fast design and Belizesailor teaches catamaran sailing) have answered. How much experience do you expect Minaret to have with catamarans?
Mark
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It was more to do with the materials and length versus speed and design criteria. Minaret was very helpful to me previously.
Your comment regarding a 15 knot cruise speed breaking everything on a 40 footer is one of the reasons I am asking regarding length/speed ratio and IF it can be done.
Are you saying then that 55 foot is the minimum for the speed and comfort?
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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27-11-2014, 05:53
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#11
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,561
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj
No. For the simple reason that averaging 15kts while cruising in a 40' catamaran will break everything on the boat, including your teeth.
BTW, three of us who actually own cruising cats with many years of experience on them (2Hulls owns a fast design and Belizesailor teaches catamaran sailing) have answered. How much experience do you expect Minaret to have with catamarans?
Mark
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I'll 2nd.. or whatever, the above..
__________________
It was a dark and stormy night and the captain of the ship said.. "Hey Jim, spin us a yarn." and the yarn began like this.. "It was a dark and stormy night.."
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27-11-2014, 05:55
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,108
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sy_gilana
273201 is the answer....
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I thought is was 42???
Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
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27-11-2014, 05:56
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,479
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis
Im thinking of a cruising Cat.
I understand length and fine entry is a help for attaining speed. I need to talk with Minaret and see if a 15 knot average is possible with a 40 footer built out of GRP, in a cruising configuration......
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I think GRP and 40 something is doable, but if you want cruising comforts too then that is where the performance reducing compromises will begin. 15 knot average is a really high expectation...that means it must be easily driven into the 20+ knot range. To do that and have cruising comforts then you need more WLL. I used to sail on a Corsair F31 that would do that easily, but definately not a cruising boat.
A 10 knot average would be a more realistic expectation. That still gets you into the 200+ mile a day range....damn good day for any cruising boat costing less than 7 figures.
Lighter more aggressive performance boats can be cantankerous in heavy weather too. Fine if you have a good race crew aboard....not so fine for most cruisers.
Chris Whites are pretty spartan below decks. If their layout suits you then something like that is achievable.
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27-11-2014, 06:07
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,108
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis
Are you saying then that 55 foot is the minimum for the speed and comfort?
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I'm saying that even the Gunboats do not average 15kts cruising. It is simply not a realistic expectation to have for any cruising boat.
I have a friend who races a Mod 70 trimaran. They just sailed it from SF to Ensenada and averaged 18kts. This boat regularly races at 30-40kts.
If you are looking for a boat that can reach 15kts at times, then yes, this is possible. 44CC has one, and so does 2Hulls. A SIG45 may even approach this as a routine speed. If you are looking to do this regularly, and for less than $2million, then that is not realistic.
Besides, you won't catch any fish going that fast.
Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com
You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
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27-11-2014, 06:10
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#15
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Riga, Latvia
Posts: 247
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Re: A Catamaran question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis
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Some cruising cats can do speed=wind speed, but 15 knots average speed will require 15 knots x 24 hrs wind.
Will PM You with custom 46 ft hull (5 ts empty displacement) ready for completion.
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