$500K for a Used Cat... What do you buy?

[boatingnewbie]

I'm curious what people would recommend in the $500K range for a used Cat.

GO.

[Thumbs Up]

This one and have $412,500 left to spend on something else:
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/56689

[Bean Counter]

from your previous posts do you want a $500,000 cat that will easily cruise at 15 knots?


https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/200...g#.W3jJo8J9ikw

[boatingnewbie]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

from your previous posts do you want a $500,000 cat that will easily cruise at 15 knots?

Would be nice but not a requirement for this exercise.

[Dave_S]

AU$650k = US$475



https://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for...ne-1480/212207

[StuM]

I'd recommend a boat that you like the look of in the 350-400K range and a good maintenance/upgrade reserve.

[ranchero76]

Someday the time will come to sell your boat. So unless you're willing to take huge loss (or spend 5 years selling it and still take huge loss), you should look at the boats which are easy to sell without loosing much money (by "easy to sell" I mean "easy to sell within few months"). Most custom builds, one-off boats, older boats would be out of question - they either sitting on the market forever or getting sold very cheap.

Lagoon 450 can be purchased for around $400K-$450K, so you'll have $50-100K for nice refit.

Forgot to add - 'Straya's market is different because they're on other side of Globe and walking upside down

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...n#.W3jtxxonbVg

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Someday the time will come to sell your boat. So unless you're willing to take huge loss (or spend 5 years selling it and still take huge loss), you should look at the boats which are easy to sell without loosing much money (by "easy to sell" I mean "easy to sell within few months"). Most custom builds, one-off boats, older boats would be out of question - they either sitting on the market forever or getting sold very cheap.

Lagoon 450 can be purchased for around $400K-$450K, so you'll have $50-100K for nice refit.

Forgot to add - 'Straya's market is different because they're on other side of Globe and walking upside down

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...n#.W3jtxxonbVg

If you buy the boat second hand, at market value, then sell it at market value........ Same/same.

[boatingnewbie]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Someday the time will come to sell your boat. So unless you're willing to take huge loss (or spend 5 years selling it and still take huge loss), you should look at the boats which are easy to sell without loosing much money (by "easy to sell" I mean "easy to sell within few months"). Most custom builds, one-off boats, older boats would be out of question - they either sitting on the market forever or getting sold very cheap.

Lagoon 450 can be purchased for around $400K-$450K, so you'll have $50-100K for nice refit.

Forgot to add - 'Straya's market is different because they're on other side of Globe and walking upside down

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...n#.W3jtxxonbVg

Thanks! The L450 is definitely one at the top of my list right now. I know many people hate the Flybridge, but I like being high-up in the helm (better visibility) and like the added bonus that on the 450F that it's quite the social area where many people can fit up there. I have heard from several 450F owners that everyone is always hanging out up in the flybridge while they're sailing. So it's definitely a nice feature -- I also happen to be a fan of their forward cockpit area.

[boatingnewbie]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/201...n#.W3jtxxonbVg

Any idea why that 450 is so cheap? Compared to others on the market it's about $100K less.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

If you buy the boat second hand, at market value, then sell it at market value........ Same/same.

Most custom and one-off catamarans on the market are priced at "seller's dream value", nowhere close to the market value. The result - many are sitting on the market forever - 3, 5, 7 and more (!) years not uncommon.
Sellers obviously looking for "very special buyer", in other words - looking for idiot with deep pockets.
Now - I don't really care what these sellers do. But when you put YOURSELF in their seat (keeping boat on the market for years, waiting for idiot to show up) - that's totally different story.

This applies to some production cats as well, but usually these cats are in very rough shape (regardless to what listing says).

All of above applies to big catamaran market - over 50 ft, prices $400K and up (as OP asked). Smaller/cheaper boat market obviously is very different.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by boatingnewbie

Any idea why that 450 is so cheap? Compared to others on the market it's about $100K less.

Actually there are quite few L450 on the market under $450K (and more are coming of course!). You'd have to check any particular boat by yourself. I wouldn't thrust to seller's word and even waaay less to broker's word.

You will have to put some money in it REGARDLESS of purchase price (even if you buy new!). Cheaper purchase price - more money for refit JUST THE WAY YOU WANT IT.

Lagoon 52 can be found for less than $750K today, still above 500K mark (sadly).

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

Most custom and one-off catamarans on the market are priced at "seller's dream value", nowhere close to the market value. The result - many are sitting on the market forever - 3, 5, 7 and more (!) years not uncommon.
Sellers obviously looking for "very special buyer", in other words - looking for idiot with deep pockets.
Now - I don't really care what these sellers do. But when you put YOURSELF in their seat (keeping boat on the market for years, waiting for idiot to show up) - that's totally different story.

This applies to some production cats as well, but usually these cats are in very rough shape (regardless to what listing says).

All of above applies to big catamaran market - over 50 ft, prices $400K and up (as OP asked). Smaller/cheaper boat market obviously is very different.

You seem to have a bias here. You position is not dependable.

You see all types of boats for sale (or anything for that matter) at the dreamers asking price. It's not limited to the type of boat, it's about the optimism of the seller. Plenty of Lagoons etc at unrealistic prices that sit on the market.

My point, which I'm not getting across is market value. Buy at market value and sell at market value. The % up or down will be similar for each type of boat. You are not better or worse with a production boat or a smaller volume boat.

[boatingnewbie]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

My point, which I'm not getting across is market value. Buy at market value and sell at market value. The % up or down will be similar for each type of boat. You are not better or worse with a production boat or a smaller volume boat.

The "key" is knowing you're actually buying at market value. And that IS a lot harder to determine with smaller volume boats where this is less historical sales to look at for 'comps' and know what the market is saying things are worth -- which is far easier with prices for more popular boats simply because more of them are for sale and one can track the going prices & sales; hence knowing they are closer to market value.

[ranchero76]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

You seem to have a bias here. You position is not dependable.

My position/opinion based on 2.5 years of market monitoring. Not whole market, but particular segment - big catamarans.
Don't get me wrong - I DO like some custom designs. But market tells otherwise.

Market price - price at which boat ACTUALLY sells. If boat was listed at 1.5M and sold at 300K after 5 years on the market, then 1.5M WAS NOT market price, and it took "only" 5 years for seller to realize that.

I've already posted this before - right priced boats in good condition very often sell immediately - within days or weeks after listing. But again - this rarely happens to custom boats.

There are exceptions, of course. 57ft one-off catamaran in "needs TLC" condition (but fully intact, not hurricane damaged or something) was listed at 150K. Guess what? It was sold quite quickly. But how many such deals do you find? There are 20-25 years old big catamarans on the market listed at $950K (no, it's not typo!). When I can buy 4-5 years old Lagoon 52 fully equipped for $750K? Really?? I'm simply speechless.

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Plenty of Lagoons etc at unrealistic prices that sit on the market.

Yes, you're correct. But it's easy with production boats - just ignore greedy sellers, there are others on the market! Not so much with custom boats. They don't have direct competition, sellers don't know and don't care what would be realistic price, so they just put "dream price". Of course they will tell you 100000 reasons why their boat is best in the World. But again - years on the market tell the truth.

Originally Posted by Dave_S

My point, which I'm not getting across is market value. Buy at market value and sell at market value. The % up or down will be similar for each type of boat. You are not better or worse with a production boat or a smaller volume boat.

The point is - if boat is listed at 800K while it's realistic price is 200K - seller is not going to take your 200K offer! For many sellers it takes MANY YEARS to realize realistic price.