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Old 14-09-2009, 02:19   #31
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You refer to someone that only earns $3.50 per day, So what you are saying there work must be crap !!!!!.

I have been building for over 45 years and 2 years ago I was in Egypt and last year I was in Phuket Thailand and as a builder I always am interested in there work and workman ship.

I have a brother who lives in Seattle, So I have over the few times that I have been to the States always made time to go around the building sites to have a look at the quality of there work.

As for workman ship Egyptians won hands down and Thailand came a close second and I would rate the Aussies and the Kiwis on par, As for the US well in my option they are still coming.

The Thais and the Egyptians are renowned for attention to detail, so your slang off at there wages shows the type of person you are and I have seen a few of those in my travels
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Old 14-09-2009, 09:21   #32
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Originally Posted by sandy daugherty View Post
OK everybody, relax and take a deep breath. Lets look at what we know.
Schionning designed it. That's good.
Its available as a kit, (with the hard parts done) with a list of options in case you don't have a handy supplier. Prices start at $X and go up from there.
It is meant to be sold to advanced private builders or to professionals for resale.
At this stage, it doesn't have any goodies: engines, plumbing, wiring, standing rigging, etc. because there are too many choices and buyers have preferences.
This is the end of Schionning involvement and remaining decisions are made by the builder for items he wants to make decisions about, or the buyer who has the dreams and the checkbook.
A price of $300,000 for a boat that big is quite low. So its meant to get the customer "in the door" and talking. Reading the add, you have to decide if you want to walk through that door and START talking based on these presumably safe assumptions:
It has engines. That should include tanks, pumps, plumbing and controls.
It has an electrical system and a freshwater system. There is some rudimentary interior.
It has no rig. No sails. No anchor, rode or windlass.

In other words, this is not a sailaway price. It is possibly a motor-away price, but thats doubtful.

Its still a good price. I don't know what a comparably equipped new vessel would cost, IF you could buy it without a rig, but I'm pretty sure it would be more.

So what is the advantage of buying a Thai-built boat? None beyond the cost of labor. Materials cost more, manufactured items like radars and winches cost more, and an extruded aluminum mast, pre-rigged by experienced people could be exorbitantly expensive. You would have to import ten at a time just to get the shipping down to something like retail. Forget it. Nobody is going to sell ten 48 footers this year; not even FP. And who is going to buy a carbon fiber mast from a factory that pays their skilled craftsmen $3.50 a day?

So: this is a motor-away boat for $300000. Just add rig, sails, interior finish and lighting, winches, electronics, bedding, gray-water system, galley equipment, heat and air conditioning, water maker, ad infinitum and the cost goes up, what? $300G more? Somebody tell me. But not anybody named Raoul.
I am with KIWI
my house in Thailand cost me $35.000, brand new, incl.land.
Quality is the same or even better as here in Canada.
Cost of living is much lower, so you can not say that quality depend on how much these people make $/hr.

I think you may find good and bad companies in every country. The workers are doing what the boss says!
The world is changing, and a lot of people, here in US or Canada, didn't recognize that fact.
I am not Thai.
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Old 14-09-2009, 12:48   #33
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Hi KIWI one question:

Was it really a Spirited 380 you have seen and tested at Thailand? (I have asked Craig Schionning (the Designer) about Beebloo and he didn't know them but he didn't believe that's it's possible to build a vessel for that price. So I think the didn't buy any plans til now)

Anyway: Craig Schionning estimates AUD 300.000 material costs which is 260.000 USD. Even if you calculate 4 USD/hour you are at only 20.000 USD labor costs for basic sail away. So I think the price told us is possible but the question is if you can trust them and how to get securities (bank guarantee)?

What was your contact at Beebloo (name, email address)?

Thank you for help.
Best regards
Peter
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Old 14-09-2009, 13:19   #34
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Originally Posted by sandy daugherty View Post
So what is the advantage of buying a Thai-built boat? None beyond the cost of labor. Materials cost more, manufactured items like radars and winches cost more, and an extruded aluminum mast, pre-rigged by experienced people could be exorbitantly expensive.
This is the crux of the matter. The savings are in labor and labor only. Honeycomb can be had for cheap but, at least im my experience, all other core materials will be much more expensive. All manufactured goods are subject to heavy import duty and VAT and will be significantly more expensive. For example, in most of the world a Kiwiprop will run you $1300USD. In Phuket it's $1900. Further, while Thai workers are capable of the finest craftsmanship, building yachts out of high-tech composites is new territory for them. As is true of anyplace where cheap labor is used to build yachts (the US and RSA come to mind), the actual laborers are not sailors and cannot be expected to understand the forces at play on a complex boat on the ocean. Therefore, carefull training and constant supervision are necesary to ensure a proper build. Thai workers are very good at making an aestheticly pleasing product, but a little bog can cover a multitude of sins. See the following blog for an example: Natural High Adventures - Warren's Blog scroll down to "Beam troughs"

There are some very nice boats being built in Thailand but due-diligence must be done. Concerning Beebloo, before I put down a deposit I would camp out at the factory for a several weeks to see what their building practices are and what materials they are using. Talk to some owners if there are any and have a surveyor visit the factory. If they check out then maybe getting a boat in "motor away" trim and driving down to Langkawi where one could have equipment shipped duty free might make sense. Or, you could avoid the math and buy used. As our own David Old Jersey says, "'Caveat emptor', latin for 'Welcome to Thailand'".

Mike
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Old 14-09-2009, 13:36   #35
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When I read this Blog I think it might be better to buy a used outremer 45 ;-(
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Old 14-09-2009, 13:48   #36
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[QUOTE=jahzoo;332070]Hi KIWI one question:

Was it really a Spirited 380 you have seen and tested at Thailand? (I have asked Craig Schionning (the Designer) about Beebloo and he didn't know them but he didn't believe that's it's possible to build a vessel for that price. So I think the didn't buy any plans til now)

Anyway: Craig Schionning estimates AUD 300.000 material costs which is 260.000 USD. Even if you calculate 4 USD/hour you are at only 20.000 USD labor costs for basic sail away. So I think the price told us is possible but the question is if you can trust them and how to get securities (bank guarantee)?

What was your contact at Beebloo (name, email address)?



I will have to admit I'm not sure,


I was just invited out for a days sail in Phuket and being interested in sailing and boats I got talking to the owner as the quility of the fit out seemed to be very good, I was told that the boat was built in "Pattaya Thailand", Then I read about Beebloo also in Pattaya and had a look at there add regarding there 38ft cat and put too and too together
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Old 14-09-2009, 13:57   #37
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And, after waiting 45 days for a reply to two separate emails, I have given up on an answer to my questions.

I would hope, if they were building for me, that they were a lot better with their correspondence than that, though I don't know how hey would get the initial order if they wont answer a basic inquiry.
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Old 14-09-2009, 17:33   #38
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And, after waiting 45 days for a reply to two separate emails, I have given up on an answer to my questions.

I would hope, if they were building for me, that they were a lot better with their correspondence than that, though I don't know how hey would get the initial order if they wont answer a basic inquiry.
They read this too and know you are not in the market?
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Old 15-09-2009, 01:07   #39
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I will have to admit I'm not sure,


I was just invited out for a days sail in Phuket and being interested in sailing and boats I got talking to the owner as the quility of the fit out seemed to be very good, I was told that the boat was built in "Pattaya Thailand", Then I read about Beebloo also in Pattaya and had a look at there add regarding there 38ft cat and put too and too together
KIWI it would be very nice if you could submit me any contact address.
Thanks and Best regards
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Old 15-09-2009, 01:24   #40
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I have emailed my mate in Phuket to see if the cat is still there and if it is get a PH or address
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Old 16-09-2009, 13:28   #41
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Have a look at the Spirited 380 thread above in this forum and you might have your solution to which boat it is.

If it is Silverback's boat I am pretty sure it was built in Australia.
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Old 20-09-2009, 06:18   #42
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Beebloo response

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Well, It's been a while since this site was brought to our attention.

On the day it was, I sent an email requesting information.
2 days later I sent another request using a different email address.

As yet I have not had a response.

They GFC must have been kind to them and they are incredibly busy with all those new orders.

Thanks for your direct and true talk.
we are a small company and we are sorry to no answer to all the inquiries, about 30/days.
Please send us email again and I can answer you .
I try to answer to inquiries with complete requirement s normaly I dont answer if the question is just: '' send more pictures please'' .
I hope you understand our position .
i hope in the future we can progress to give a better service on internet.
thanks .
Laurent SAUSSAYE (Director)
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Old 20-09-2009, 19:42   #43
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Thanks for your direct and true talk.
we are a small company and we are sorry to no answer to all the inquiries, about 30/days.
Please send us email again and I can answer you ......
......Or perhaps you can just look through this thread and answer the questions that have already been asked.

That way we all know the answers.

Thanks.
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Old 20-09-2009, 19:53   #44
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......Or perhaps you can just look through this thread and answer the questions that have already been asked.

That way we all know the answers.

Thanks.
That is what I was thinking.
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Old 21-09-2009, 04:38   #45
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So, what all y'all are saying is that this is the price for a power cat?
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