44 Helia "sunk" in the Atlantic

[Thumbs Up]

I had a hunch from the beginning that it was the escape hatch. Now it is confirmed.

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I had a hunch from the beginning that it was the escape hatch. Now it is confirmed.

Your post with that hunch near the beginning of this tread and the information from Tornadosailing was what motivated me to try to get to the bottom of this story.

[VeinDocFL]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

I had a hunch from the beginning that it was the escape hatch. Now it is confirmed.

Well, as a new owner of a 2016 Helia Evolution I'm officially freaked out so I plan on doing the mod as well. I haven't looked at my escape hatches since reading all this so why didn't you add similar corner reinforcements on the lower corners? Not enough room or something in the way? Any reason you didn't glue or weld the aluminum cross pieces to the frame? Thanks for your fix idea. I'm a member of the Corsair group as well and the volume of mods they come up with is astounding.

Mike

[Amaleo]

I have a French built Kennex 380 with what must be Guiot 49-42 escape hatches, but there is no security bar across the inner handles to prevent opening from outside. Not a problem since i can fabricate something, but the picture you posted does not show the bar across the diagonals that are your modification and I do not understand your diagram plan as it does not have an elevation (side or end view). My hatches are above the WL and under the removable companion ways.

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by VeinDocFL

Well, as a new owner of a 2016 Helia Evolution I'm officially freaked out so I plan on doing the mod as well. I haven't looked at my escape hatches since reading all this so why didn't you add similar corner reinforcements on the lower corners? Not enough room or something in the way? Any reason you didn't glue or weld the aluminum cross pieces to the frame? Thanks for your fix idea. I'm a member of the Corsair group as well and the volume of mods they come up with is astounding.

Mike

I didn't put anything on the bottom because the handles are through the lens and they provide positive locking for the bottom of the lens to the frame. The top of the lens is what comes loose and then the water pulls the lens out from the frame. Putting the blocks on the top corners allows the lens to be secured in all four corners.

As for the cross pieces, they are held to the frame by the force of the screws pulling on the blocks. When the cross piece is screwed down, it pulls the lens harder into the frame and that pressure comes from the force pressing on the aluminum frame by the cross bar. It is rock solid, glue or welding wouldn't change it. I was careful not to over tighten the screws because I didn't want to bend the lens. Just enough force for everything to be tight.

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by Amaleo

I have a French built Kennex 380 with what must be Guiot 49-42 escape hatches, but there is no security bar across the inner handles to prevent opening from outside. Not a problem since i can fabricate something, but the picture you posted does not show the bar across the diagonals that are your modification and I do not understand your diagram plan as it does not have an elevation (side or end view). My hatches are above the WL and under the removable companion ways.

The bars are not part of the fix, so those don't matter. The handles secure the bottom part of the lens to the frame.

Here is the side view I quickly sketched up for you. The frame is the frame of the hatch. The screw goes through the middle of the acrylic block. The countersink needs to be deep enough so the screw head doesn't touch the lens which would interfere with the welding of the block to the lens. I also put a touch of solvent glue on the screw head to keep it from turning when I tightened the nut.

Hopefully that helps!

[PapaLulu]

Originally Posted by AllenRbrts

The bars are not part of the fix, so those don't matter. The handles secure the bottom part of the lens to the frame.



Here is the side view I quickly sketched up for you. The frame is the frame of the hatch. The screw goes through the middle of the acrylic block. The countersink needs to be deep enough so the screw head doesn't touch the lens which would interfere with the welding of the block to the lens. I also put a touch of solvent glue on the screw head to keep it from turning when I tightened the nut.



Hopefully that helps!

Thanks, AllenRbrts! We also own a 2016 Helia Evolution that will get this fix. Would you mind sharing which solvent glue you used? Did you consider a through bolt with a nylon washer?

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by PapaLulu

Thanks, AllenRbrts! We also own a 2016 Helia Evolution that will get this fix. Would you mind sharing which solvent glue you used? Did you consider a through bolt with a nylon washer?

The glue I used is Weld-On Acrylic Adhesive #4. It softens the two surfaces and allows them to bond together rather than glued.

When we had the failure at sea, the first thought I had was to drill through the lens and bring a bolt through, but at the time I was terrified the lens would shatter when I drilled it making a bad problem really really bad. I have since learned my worry wasn't founded. For a permanent fix I think it is best to avoid a hole through the lens, it is another place to leak. The acrylic to acrylic bond is very strong. I tested it on the old lens and it was amazing. Because it actually is a weld, it shouldn't weaken over time.

My side view drawing is missing a key item which is the air gap between the aluminum bar and the acrylic block. It is that gap that generates the force on the lens when the screw is tightened. The thickness of the acrylic block is less than the height of the frame which creates that gap.

[AllenRbrts]

Better side view drawing...

[CatNewBee]

That is one problem with the Lagoon escape hatches, you have to break the glas to open them. There is no way to close them after breaking, so potentially you will escape, but the boat may sink afterwards and this can be even worse than staying inside in the air bubble.

[Snore]

As a delivery and charter captain, I have been following this thread with great interest. Has anyone contacted FP or Lagoon?

The field engineered fix looks good, but curious what the manufacturers say...

[PapaLulu]

Originally Posted by AllenRbrts

Better side view drawing...

I would assume that once one needs to use the field-repaired escape hatch that a wrench would be required to loosen the nuts. Maybe a wing nut might be an improvement. Do you think the bolt needs more torque than hand tight?

[PapaLulu]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

That is one problem with the Lagoon escape hatches, you have to break the glas to open them. There is no way to close them after breaking, so potentially you will escape, but the boat may sink afterwards and this can be even worse than staying inside in the air bubble.

I don’t believe the Guiot Escape Hatch, once opened, can be resecured from the outside either. Perhaps the manufacturers could consider adding flat exterior dog handles similar to those commonly used on deck hatches. I would assume that, once turtled, it would be a big survival advantage to maintain as much flotation of the turtled hulls as possible. Seems like it would provide a better platform for securing the life raft and being able to, subject to conditions, reaccessing the hull contents.

[mark_morwood]

The Guiot can be opened and closed from both the inside and outside. The locking bar on the inside rests on two of the handles for security so that the hatch can not be opened from the outside while it is present, but it falls off if the boat is inverted.

[AllenRbrts]

Originally Posted by PapaLulu

I would assume that once one needs to use the field-repaired escape hatch that a wrench would be required to loosen the nuts. Maybe a wing nut might be an improvement. Do you think the bolt needs more torque than hand tight?

The "fix" when installed does not interfere with the normal operation of the hatch. It only contacts the frame which holds the lens, not the outer frame connected to the boat. I'm not too sure how much pressure the lens needs from the "fix". I tightened till everything was snug and then did another 1/2 turn or so. The bar is really tight and can't be moved. However I don't think it puts too much pressure on the lens itself so as to distort it in anyway.