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Old 26-12-2006, 09:55   #31
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I guess the question that needs to be asked is: When caught in this condition, breaking seas greater than the beam, on a lee shore, what is the correct action for a cat? Can they fore reach out of danger?

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Old 26-12-2006, 15:24   #32
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Had bolt on's on the last cat, and this time wer'e giving carbon fibre a go.

No through bolt's == no leak's ........ever.

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Sounds like a good solution to the bridle problem. Our bridle chainplates are 24 inches long and four inches wide on deck with back up plates of the same dimension and strength except that they are twenty inches long. The chain plates and back up plates are bedded in 5200 - messy to install - but they have been totally waterproof in the six years that we have had them installed.

The chainplates and bail welded to the chainplate protected our bow when we were hit by a 115 foot megayacht in Bequia in the Caribbean last year. The bail bent slightly, but the chainplate was unmoved. So in addition to being an excellent chafe-free anchor point for a parachute sea anchor bridle, or storm anchor bridle, it also makes an excellent bumper when attacked by rogue megayahcts.

Good luck on your carbon fiber design.

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Old 26-12-2006, 17:05   #33
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Lets say they were ten mile out and even if they had a drogue/parashute anchor and deployed it without any chafe- at 25 to 40 ft seas and 75+ knot winds draging them into shore, would it have done any good???
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Old 26-12-2006, 18:14   #34
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Quote:
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Lets say they were ten mile out and even if they had a drogue/parashute anchor and deployed it without any chafe- at 25 to 40 ft seas and 75+ knot winds draging them into shore, would it have done any good???
We laid to a 18 foot diameter parachute sea anchor in fifty knots of wind 300 miles north of New Zealand in mid winter. In seventeen hours on the sea anchor, we drifted one half a mile on GPS.

In the absence of current setting them toward shore, they could have laid to a sea anchor for several days as long as the bridle holds and the parachute survives. I suspect that they would never have been driven ashore with an intact parachute sea anchor system. Whether or not they would have capsized is another question.

Our experience with the para anchor international was very positive and we had no damage to chute, bridle, or associated gear. The ride was very comfortable - a no worries mate situation once the anchor was out. A container ship lost twenty containers into the ocean in the same storm north of New Zealand.

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Old 26-12-2006, 23:29   #35
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Maxingout,

Was that in a Cat?
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Old 27-12-2006, 00:16   #36
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@maxingout,

you deployed it from the bow or stern ?
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Old 27-12-2006, 04:17   #37
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Maxingout is a cat, say's so under his name, and parachutes only from the bow, drogues only from the stern.

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Old 27-12-2006, 07:35   #38
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Maxingout,

Was that in a Cat?
We were in our Privilege 39 catamaran, Exit Only. We were in a squash zone and the seas were chaotic north of New Zealand. It was the roughest seas in our entire circumnavigation, and was the only time we used the chute during the circumnavigation. The parachute was deployed off the bows to 500 feet of double braid and that was attached to the bridle which had two arms that were each forty feet long. The bridle was attached by D-shackles on a bail that was welded to our stainless steel through bolted in-deck storm anchor chainplates. That was a mouthful of adjectives.

Once we had the parachute out, life was good. We could have cooked a three course meal on the stove without problem. Stopping the boat dead in the water makes an awesome difference. The winds were fifty knots and seas were eighteen to twenty feet. The system works good in winds up to fifty knots for us. Above that level of wind, I have no experience.

I think the biggest risk with the sea anchor is chafe of the bridle. If the bridle goes, then you are in trouble again. That's why I put the sea anchor chainplates with welded bails sticking out in front of the bows.

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Old 27-12-2006, 07:37   #39
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Maxingout is a cat, say's so under his name, and parachutes only from the bow, drogues only from the stern.

Dave
We had Exit Only for two years at Monty's Boatyard on the Caboolture River north of Brisbane. Is there any chance you are building your cat in Monty's?

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Old 27-12-2006, 08:05   #40
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OK,,,I'm convinced. I will not attach the sea anchor to the bow cross beam where the anchor bridal is attached. Instead I'll do the same as Maxingout and connect the sea anchor to the actual bows by some beafed up plate system. Makes sense.
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Old 27-12-2006, 11:37   #41
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I guess the question that needs to be asked is: When caught in this condition, breaking seas greater than the beam, on a lee shore, what is the correct action for a cat? Can they fore reach out of danger?
Very few boats can make progress to the windward in much over 35 knots, certainly not a cat and most certainly not that cat. With a storm trysail and leeward motor you might be able to make a little progress, but I suspect that the sea state in this particular storm would have prevented even that. Your best bet for survival would be to pick a relatively sheltered (ie. south facing) cove and try to beach the boat while you still have had control. Probably you'd die anyway. From the Chron report, it wasn't clear whether they deployed a sea anchor or a conventional anchor but that either would break in those conditions given the wind and waves isn't too surprising.

According to the SF Chronical, the skipper was very experienced, making his decision to put to sea in the forecast conditions all the more inexplicable. The problem with that stretch of coast (SF to Puget Sound) is that the weather conditions that make you want to seek shelter are exactly the conditions that close all the harbors. Swell preceeds the storm and comes up very quickly. By the time the winds arrive, the harbors are all closing out. Even the channel through the SF bar would have been iffy.

But surf forecasting is dead accurate. In fact, I planned a surf session the day before they came to grief about 5 days in advance.

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Old 27-12-2006, 13:56   #42
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We had Exit Only for two years at Monty's Boatyard on the Caboolture River north of Brisbane. Is there any chance you are building your cat in Monty's?

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No mate, there's no chance i'd build anything at Monty's.

She's a backyard job.

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Old 27-12-2006, 14:12   #43
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No mate, there's no chance i'd build anything at Monty's.

She's a backyard job.

Dave
Good on you mate,

I understand what you're saying. Many people are put off by Monty's extremely "basic Boatyard". We had no problems there, except for the gum trees dropping leaves on deck. There are always two or three cats being built there because it's so inexpensive. I stored Exit Only at Monty's for a year for about 800 Ozzie Dollars, and so it worked for me. I must confess, that the first time I visited Monty's I vowed to never put my cat in that place.

One of the things I like about Australia and New Zealand is that backyard boatbuilding is alive and well, and I have sailed all over the world with mates who built their own yachts down under.

I look forward to seeing pictures of your yacht when it's completed.

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Old 27-12-2006, 14:31   #44
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Sad day.
They must have been very competent guys to have sailed a 44 cruising cat across the S.Ocean and up across the Pacific.
My thoughts go to their families.
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Old 27-12-2006, 16:33   #45
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Similar to the Sydney Hobart 2006?

THe conditions seem to be similar to those that beset the leader in the Sydney Hobart fleet this year.
Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race 2006.. Gale force winds cause dismastings early in Rolex Sydney Hobart
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