40ft Catamaran Owners Please

[Gpolar]

Originally Posted by Fresh Salt

Hi FLLCatsailor,

Thanks for the reply, that is interresting as most everthing I have come across so far indicates that beside the various other factors that effect slapping when not beating into a swell, a minimum clearance of 30 inches is advised on a 40ft to avoid such.

Leopard do not declare bridgedeck clearance on their specifications
(website) which raises an eyebrow seeing that it is such a hot topic.
In external reviews the bridge deck is reportedly around 21.2 on the Leopard 40, could you confirm?

Budget will not be the deciding factor in my purchase, I have noticed that price is a reasonably good guage of build quality though not necissarily an indicator of the features that make a good bluewater boat. The +/- 40ft vessels I have come accross thusfar fall within what I'm willing to part with for the right boat.

I will be living permanently on and sailing the vessel for the next 10-15 years, the first two years will depend somewhat on where I make the purchase and would be mostly coastal and sheltered water sailing (BVI, Med, Thailand etc) with occasional short crossings to build up my ablilty before attempting a slow-paced circumnavigation.

I have a couple 1000 hours at sea as a dive instructor, unfortunately very few of those were on sailing vessels, and even fewer on catamarans.

A trip many years back on a poorly designed catamaran of the east coast of South Africa in moderate conditions does stand out as something I wish to avoid at all costs, noise and feel were overbearing.

I have two initial exploratory trips in the pipeline, the first will be to Thailand in July where I have chartered an older FP Athena 38 for a 10 day introductory course (as a benchmark). Thereafter Thailand seems to have a very active brokerage enviroment and I'll be getting in as many test sails, on as many different vessels as I can whilst there.

Then I'll be off to Cape Town to get a feel for more challenging conditions, while test sailing what is on offer over there. By then I hope to have a clear picture of what I ulimately need / want.

My intention here as a newbie, is simply to learn as much as possible from the experience and know how of others as I'm bound to overlook something if left to my own devices.

Dave

I also have a same planning as yours. But i hv been checking on mooring. Seems very difficult for cat. But for anchoring. Is the boat safe when u get to shore...

[Fresh Salt]

Originally Posted by Talbot

I have a Privilege 37 which I bought in order to cruise long distance. I am just finishing a major refit to achieve the fit that I want. This size (it is nearly 39 ft long) is ideal for a single person or two, but if I had the money, the 435 would have been considered as I think it is a great design.

Privilege are not performance boats, but they do comfort really well. As a boat to liveaboard, you will spend more time at anchor or alongside than you will at sea, so onboard comfort is an important consideration.

Does it meet all my criteria - no, but you have to recognise that all boats are a compromise, so it is important that you analyse exactly what you are going to be doing with your boat, and then analyse what is important to YOU. Having done that, and taking into account your budget, you will be in a better position to select a small short list, which needs further more detailed study. If you do this, you have a chance of finding a design that meets your criteria for a long time

Hi Talbot,

Thank you for your input. The Privilege range has definitely made it onto the shortlist as I have found very few negative points in regard to them.

Their reported build quality and longevity is of particular interest among their many other positive aspects. I’ll be actively searching them out for test sails come July / August.

Your approach, in finding a suitable boat and doing a refit holds more than a little interest, something I will definitely keep in mind during my search.

Dave

[Fresh Salt]

Originally Posted by NautiBits

Fresh Salt,

Welcome aboard the CF!!

Great job trying to keep the learned responses focused on what you want to know. Continued fair winds with your research!



Joe Mc

Joe / NautiBits,

Thanks for the welcome, and thanks also to everyone else who has given up their time, patience and knowledge so far. Browsing manufacturer’s catalogues is nowhere near as informative.

Dave

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Fresh Salt

Hi FLLCatsailor,

Thanks for the reply, that is interresting as most everthing I have come across so far indicates that beside the various other factors that effect slapping when not beating into a swell, a minimum clearance of 30 inches is advised on a 40ft to avoid such.

Leopard do not declare bridgedeck clearance on their specifications
(website) which raises an eyebrow seeing that it is such a hot topic.
In external reviews the bridge deck is reportedly around 21.2 on the Leopard 40, could you confirm?ow how of others as I'm bound to overlook something if left to my own devices.

A failure to declare clearance is usually a hint that it does not have enough. Having said that, the Leopard 40s designed by Morelli and Melvin hqd more than adequate clearance. So its not just a matter of brands but designers as well

[Fresh Salt]

Originally Posted by Gpolar

I also have a same planning as yours. But i hv been checking on mooring. Seems very difficult for cat. But for anchoring. Is the boat safe when u get to shore...

Below are some links you may find as interesting as I did, unfortunately I’m not able to offer much else in this regard due to my lack of experience.

From my research into the matter; if I were to leave a boat unattended at a mooring or at anchor for any extended amount of time, I would certainly use additional / multiple anchors and also dive on them to ensure that they have properly set.

ALMOST NEVER FAIL CATAMARAN ANCHORING SYSTEM

Maximizing Holding Power by Tandem Anchoring

Multiple anchor rigs

I'd be happy to hear of any other information or solutions you come by in your investigations.

Dave

[Fresh Salt]

Originally Posted by Factor

A failure to declare clearance is usually a hint that it does not have enough. Having said that, the Leopard 40s designed by Morelli and Melvin hqd more than adequate clearance. So its not just a matter of brands but designers as well

Hi Factor,

I can see how this is a trap easily fallen into by newcomers such as myself, thank you for pointing it out. It is all too easy to end up with misgivings over a certain brand, when not having sufficient knowledge.

Could you perhaps direct me toward any further reading material relating to the clearance, or perhaps supply specifications as I am not able to find these on the Morelli & Melvin site either?

Dave

[djtopper]

If you every tally up a list of pros and cons by model, I'd love to see that even if it's 110% subjective. I'm in the very early stages of where you are ... giving myself a year or two to get educated and see where used cat prices end up.

I love the aesthetic appearance and interior design of the FPs with hard tops, but I'm wary of some build quality issues that I've heard about from some folks, first and second hand.

[Fresh Salt]

Originally Posted by djtopper

If you every tally up a list of pros and cons by model, I'd love to see that even if it's 110% subjective. I'm in the very early stages of where you are ... giving myself a year or two to get educated and see where used cat prices end up.

I love the aesthetic appearance and interior design of the FPs with hard tops, but I'm wary of some build quality issues that I've heard about from some folks, first and second hand.

Hi, djtopper,

I’ll be taking careful notes on all the boats I get to test out with special attention to measurements and information that some manufacturers seem to guard closer than the crown jewels.

Before posting anything I'll do my best to clearly separate my opinions from verifiable facts.

I also find myself drawn to the FPs, and share concern in the rumors of build quality. That said, the only video I have so far been able to track down that does anything to address BDC has been of a FP Lavezzi in both 20 knot following seas as well as 30 knot head-seas of 3 meters at 45 degrees apparent.

There seems to be little to no hull slapping, though a bit of an odd creaking sound that I’d be interested to hear opinions on?

Bridgedeck Clearance - Fountaine Pajot Lavezzi 40 - YouTube

Dave

[djtopper]

I'll be chartering an Orana 44' in July here in the US. It will only be on the Chesapeake bay so I doubt I'll be dealing with any waves that would yield slapping. But I'm of course happy to share my impressions.

I'm thinking you had a list of things you were looking into somewhere farther up this thread. Not sure I can go through a detailed checklist (it's a mini holiday with some friends) but I'm also interested in comparing / contrasting various things between 44'ish cats.

I don't think the FPs slap. IIRC they have the little "mini hull" square in the middle of the bottom of the BD. I think the Lagoons do too. This apparently reduces "the slap."

I've heard that some of the 40' Leopards slap. They apparently have a flat bottom BD. But this situation only seems to happen under certain conditions. A friend was telling me he's experienced "the slap" on Leopard here in the bay ... but not on an ocean trip where the Leopard seems to come more into its own.

The FPs (and others) may indeed creak. But that could also have lots to do with rigging components ... and might possibly be eliminated with different line, lubrication, etc.

EDIT: the creaking in that video sounds an awful lot like a rattling (either wall or ceiling mounted) air / vent fan to me.

[dpddj]

I recently chartered an FP Lipari in the Bahamas. Let's just say be sure you take any boat you are considering on a real sail for an honest evaluation of its features and sailability. Who the heck puts a helm bimini so high you have only about two foot of space in which the boom can go to stbd until it whacks you in the head? Don't get me started on the chain locker! And lines layout, etc. Enough said - check it out for yourself.

[Kita]

I also have almost the same plan as Fresh salt & have looked at the leopard 40 & what turned me off was balsa core below the waterline, but thats me. I really like the Lagoon 38 owners version & plan to sail mostly solo & it is kinda in my budget. I have not looked so much at the Privilege but I will after reading this, thank you everyone! I can relate to Fresh salt, he has the same plan as I do, I wonder,Fresh salt, what do your freinds think? I get alot of wows & sometimes cool reactions from fokes when they find out why I am selling everything to buy a boat.

[FLLCatsailor]

I would highly recommend taking a trip to a place where you can look at, and crawl around on as many different catamarans as possible to get a better idea of what will and wont work for you as a live aboard.

Unless you start chartering boats, the likely hood of getting out sailing on a bunch of different models is going to be nearly impossible...

I highly recommend coming down to South Florida and looking at boats.

[Kita]

I live near Tarpon springs & am doing just that, (looking at everything I can). I am looking at a Dean on sunday to see if I like the galley down thing & also have plans to go to BVI to get on some different things, trying to stay under 200 so it will be something a few years old. I got on an Island spirit 37 & like it but I liked the lagoon 3 cabin better,so far thats the one I like. I have been looking & learning as much as I can for a while now & am finding people are right on when they say there is no perfect boat, everything is a comperise & you have to decide what is important to you.. I am finding it is like buying a motorcycle, there are alot of questions you must ask yourslef & be real about it,street bike or dual sport, then what kind & where are you going to ride? Local or the long way around & the more honest you are with yourslef about what you really like the more happy you will be & hopefully no buyer`s remorse.. I have a friend that has pulled the trigger twice & then canceled the deal & I think it is because he didn`t do the research he should have & then started second guessing himslef. For me I wrote a paper in 7th grade about sailing around the world & then life happens, married -sick parents, wine women & song, we all go through it, & just could not ever get off the dock so to speak. Now all those things are gone & now at 52, I am so ready, maybe a little over ripe, but better late than never. If anyone has something or knows of something in west FL that I can look at that would be great, like the man said, get on as many as you can, or I can,you know what I mean. Thanks everyone! You are a great source of info!!

[Fresh Salt]

Originally Posted by djtopper

I'll be chartering an Orana 44' in July here in the US. It will only be on the Chesapeake bay so I doubt I'll be dealing with any waves that would yield slapping. But I'm of course happy to share my impressions.

I'm thinking you had a list of things you were looking into somewhere farther up this thread. Not sure I can go through a detailed checklist (it's a mini holiday with some friends) but I'm also interested in comparing / contrasting various things between 44'ish cats.

I’d be keen to hear your take on the Orana especially in relation to its solo sail-ability which will be a key factor in any future decision, my initial impression is that the 44’s may present difficulty in this area without additional modification.

By the very structural nature of a catamaran I’m convinced that all will at some time in a certain sea go bump. My major intention is in separating those that are the exception from those that do so as a rule, with an eye on structural integrity over extended periods at sea.

Originally Posted by dpddj

I recently chartered an FP Lipari in the Bahamas. Let's just say be sure you take any boat you are considering on a real sail for an honest evaluation of its features and sailability. Who the heck puts a helm bimini so high you have only about two foot of space in which the boom can go to stbd until it whacks you in the head? Don't get me started on the chain locker! And lines layout, etc. Enough said - check it out for yourself.

The mast clearance is something I noticed also, here is another vid by the same guy who quite skillfully avoids a clear look at the boom clearance for the most part, with a short glimpse at 2:45 where it seems ample, then again at 14:13 you get a view that seems to indicate it is very low assuming that the cameraman is at the helm station and not purposely elevated to get his shot.
There are some nice views of water-flow through the tunnel at around 4:00, taken from under the tramps.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPhoyHL0dJM

Originally Posted by Kita

I also have almost the same plan as Fresh salt & have looked at the leopard 40 & what turned me off was balsa core below the waterline, but thats me. I really like the Lagoon 38 owners version & plan to sail mostly solo & it is kinda in my budget. I have not looked so much at the Privilege but I will after reading this, thank you everyone! I can relate to Fresh salt, he has the same plan as I do, I wonder,Fresh salt, what do your freinds think? I get alot of wows & sometimes cool reactions from fokes when they find out why I am selling everything to buy a boat.

Good luck in your search also, I’d be grateful if you’d take the time to post your discoveries here, seems one can never have too much information when it comes to our current endeavor.

My friends are none to surprised actually as I’ve been mouthing off about doing this for many years, it being my standard response to questions of why I never went for the whole white picket fence thing. (Feeble excuse admittedly.)

Originally Posted by FLLCatsailor

I would highly recommend taking a trip to a place where you can look at, and crawl around on as many different catamarans as possible to get a better idea of what will and wont work for you as a live aboard.

Unless you start chartering boats, the likely hood of getting out sailing on a bunch of different models is going to be nearly impossible...

I highly recommend coming down to South Florida and looking at boats.

Thanks for the heads up, I was under the assumption that I’d be able to work in a test sail on most boats that people had in the market for resale, and certainly get one arranged on any models that are on offer from the factory before making a commitment.

That said, and perhaps not being the case, I’d rather fork out for the charter than regret not doing so and end up with a lemon. I’ll definitely keep Florida in mind if I still have reservations after my currently planned trips.

Dave

[FLLCatsailor]

Dave,

Most sellers won't do a sea trial unless a sale price and deposit are in place (ie a contract). Some boat owners may agree to take you out on a test sail, but very rare. It's standard for a contract to be "pending survey, sea trial, and personal inspection."

In terms of going out on demo sails on new boats, some manufactures do demo days, and demo sales for clients they feel qualified to buy a new boat.

It's a bit unfortunate that it is this way, but it is what it is.

Chartering is really the best way to get out and sail a bunch of different models of boats. You can also try to offer your services for crew on a delivery which is a great way to gain time on all different types of yachts.

I've been fortunate to have delivered a ton of different cats over 1000's of miles to form an opinion on what works for me personally in a catamaran.