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Old 08-01-2016, 12:29   #91
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
IIRC you are shopping for a larger cat right?

Most cats are not well laid out for single handing and a bigger cat can be a real challenge to single hand...esp in heavy conditions...the loads generated are huge.
Yes I'm looking for a larger cat. Of course with all electric winches and a backup portable electric winch in case of power failure.

I'm looking at sailing New York City. For business entertainment professional relations purposes in northern summer. So the boat needs to look great from the outside and inside. Image aesthetics are important. Very different if I was just going to knock about in it for just pleasure.

I have an office in South America so I'm planning of sailing down way south for the Southern summer / northern winter. Sailing, vacationing and working from it in the waters of Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil. I may put it in the Caribbean during some northern winters though. But not planning on this over the next few years.

Some northern summers I'm looking at crossing the Atlantic for using it as a work and business entertainment base in the Med and the mid east.

I think the Lagoon 45 is great in so many respects. Not impressed in its cabinet work though. A larger even 60' can be one person operated if properly set up. And it would look impressive for business entertainment. I also could easily opt to crew it for longer passages etc. The Lagoon 62 sits nice and high in the water. A great platform for long passages. And it's boom doesn't shadow where I'd put the solar panels. The Lagoon 52 and 56 are a problem in this area.

Decisions decisions.

Thanks,
Chaya
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Old 08-01-2016, 12:58   #92
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by Skip JayR View Post
If you take the log books of long distance sailors on catamarans, 95% come to the conclusion: Average cruising speed is 10 knots (with max. speed of 16 roughly).

There I was thinking we had a reasonably quick boat. Turns out to be slower than average. At least our max speed is OK.
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Old 08-01-2016, 13:01   #93
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
Thank you Belizesailor. Very helpful. I noticed a big jump in the bridge deck clearance between the Lagoon 45 and 52 and above.

Chaya
As a generalisation, a wider bridgedeck needs to have higher clearance. So you'd expect the bigger boat to have higher clearance.
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Old 08-01-2016, 13:18   #94
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

You say this...

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Originally Posted by Skip JayR View Post

I never heard of Catamarans using drogues or parachut anchors... thats mostly theory...
Then post this video of a cat clearly towing, well something! If not a drogue, then what? A water-skier?



[/QUOTE]
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Old 08-01-2016, 13:21   #95
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
In concept I dont like those either, and they are common, but rarely an issue in practice. Getting pooped on a cat is rare. Most Ive ever gotten into the cockpit was a few gallons that splashed up the sugar scoops...this was in about 15' following seas when one would break right at the stern.

The open salon/cockpit design that is becoming popular now could really move a LOT of water.

In really severe conditions they could be a problem, but in conditions most cruisers are likely to encounter no.
I watched that video and noticed the sliding door as well. In those seas it does seem vulnerable .But in all my years of cat sailing I have never had or heard of one being pooped . Now I have not been in a southern ocean gale either.
Perhaps the ability to surf and the fact that generally the cockpit is not right at the stern (no fights over this comment please)coupled with height off the water reduces the danger .the waves in that vid looked pretty big but did not seem to pose an unreasonable threat .
I m sure that if this was an issue we would have heard about it .
The only Large Cat I know that got big water inside from a wave was an Atlantic 42 (46) that went into a standing wave on the St Lawrence River with the forward facing door open and put several 100 Gallons down below in 30 seconds .I love Chris whites designs but didn't like that detail

The laundry is a hoot
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Old 08-01-2016, 20:26   #96
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
The issue with taking it to a normal winch would be that a Jordan Series drogue will be a big sloppy mess and all this individual cones are likely to foul on something. Rather than a typical winch some other system could be devised. One is in fact suggested on the Jordan site:

Jordan Series Drogue - Launching and Retrieval

The large diameter hydraulic dirven drums like used to recover nets/traps might work too.
Thanks for the reference. Spent the last hour reading all. Confirms that bringing in a series drogue can be a battle.

I found this electric deep sea fishing reel that could have an adapted drum made for reeling in. http://m.tackledirect.com/elec-tra-mate-612-pm-electric-reel-drive-for-penn-114h2-6-0.html

I was thinking also about having a line that attaches at the tip of the drogue. You use this line to bring it in which will not have the drag that normal reeling in would have. I need to give this more thought.

Regards,
Chaya
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Old 08-01-2016, 20:39   #97
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
As a generalisation, a wider bridgedeck needs to have higher clearance. So you'd expect the bigger boat to have higher clearance.
Understood. But there is a significant increase in the distance from the waterline to the bottom of the bridgework from the Lagoon 45 and the L52. I also see that the Sunreef has a lower clearance than the Lagoon 52,56 and 62.

I think since I will be doing a more than a couple of Trans Atlantics as well as very off coast far South American passages the high the deck water clearance the better. I do wish the Sunreef had a higher clearance. Perhaps I'm being over picky on this point.

Thanks,
Chaya
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Old 08-01-2016, 20:49   #98
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
3-storeys Lagoon-56 for a single-handed long term cruising?
No, GoingWalkabout, not this way, please!
You can build much more clever and convenient boat for this kind sailing,
(Sunreef-59/60 exclusive as well)!
HI Steamer. Are you suggesting that the water clearance of the 42 and 56 is not an advantage over the lower clearance of the Sunreef? By the way I love the woodwork of the Sunreef in their traditional layout models. Call me old fashioned but I like the richness of high gloss quality wood finishes. I also love the hull galley giving a great and classy salon. Would be great for dinner parties and meetings for business. The cheap looking wood work of the Lagoon is my biggest concern with the Lagoon. Both manufacturers have great space up top. Love that area. One thing I found peculiar is that both manufacturers have dinky uncomfortable helm seats. I would want to put a really comfortable helm seat set up on top.

Regards,
Chaya
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Old 08-01-2016, 21:48   #99
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Interesting article from Multihulls Quarterly on bridgedeck clearance is available as a PDF download here: http://www.liveantares.com/pdf/BridgedeckClearance.pdf
Thanks StuM. Great article on bridgedeck clearance.

From what I got from the article.

1. Higher water to bridgedeck clearance the less banging/slamming - very important for a more peaceful passage in oceans and reducing stress on the boat

2. Higher off the water the greater the windage resulting in greater difficulty at docking. Also greater windage in high seas with high winds has safety issues.

So I now need to check out reports on slamming on different manufacturers models. I also need to compile figures on actual measurements of bridgedeck ckearance. Looks like I have a lot more homework to do. Just when I thought I had it all worked out I get to realize how much I don't know. Thanks StuM :-)
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Old 09-01-2016, 00:39   #100
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
Yes I'm looking for a larger cat.

I'm looking at sailing New York City.

Sailing, vacationing and working from it in the waters of Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil.

I'm looking at crossing the Atlantic for using it ...in the Med and the mid east.

The Lagoon 62 sits nice and high in the water. A great platform for long passages. And it's boom doesn't shadow where I'd put the solar panels. The Lagoon 52 and 56 are a problem in this area.


Chaya
Dear Chaya,

Afraid the main problem with chosen cats will not be shadowing.

Afraid You will need to replace "sailing" by "mostly motoring" in Your imagination setup.

Please keep clear of profi-marketers when approaching them.

Sorry for that,
Oleg
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:50   #101
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

If you haven't read Chris White's "The Cruising Multihull" grab a copy, best quick summary of the important issues from a highly knowledgeable experienced sailor and designer.
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Old 09-01-2016, 01:53   #102
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

I have crossed the south pacific in smaller catamarans, 30ft & 38ft.

First one was an Endeavourcat 30. Maybe not the most suited boat for such trip but itīs doable. Itīs a norrow cat at about 15ft beam. Would I recommend anyone to do it? Naaa, there are better options.

Second one. A Helios 38ft catamaran, 22ft beam. This time we had much rougher crossing but never really felt unsecure. I would absolutly recommend this size for people who can't afford bigger.

Without good seamanship you can flip any cat no matter what. If you get bad weather, to big breaking waves and are sailing on a beam reach I would suggest to fall off. Are you going very fast? Then you are having to much sail up. Reef! Going fast can be fun but it stresses the boat a lot more and thing will easily break.

A problem with smaller cats, 30-40ft is their payload. Itīs usually not that great and for such trip you will carry lots of weight. So, you will easily overload the boat, which is not that great. This is a generalisation but true in most cases.
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:33   #103
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
There I was thinking we had a reasonably quick boat. Turns out to be slower than average. At least our max speed is OK.
Difference is that your assesment of average cruising speed is based on reality...not surfing the net.
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:37   #104
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
...

I was thinking also about having a line that attaches at the tip of the drogue. You use this line to bring it in which will not have the drag that normal reeling in would have. I need to give this more thought.

Regards,
Chaya
Trip lines are rigged on sea anchors where you really need them to collapse the chute. Not famaliar with them being rigged on drogues. A theoretical possibility of course, but trip lines come with their own issues, namely getting fouled.
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:48   #105
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
Yes I'm looking for a larger cat. Of course with all electric winches and a backup portable electric winch in case of power failure.

I'm looking at sailing New York City. For business entertainment professional relations purposes in northern summer. So the boat needs to look great from the outside and inside. Image aesthetics are important. Very different if I was just going to knock about in it for just pleasure.

....

I think the Lagoon 45 is great in so many respects. Not impressed in its cabinet work though. A larger even 60' can be one person operated if properly set up. And it would look impressive for business entertainment. I also could easily opt to crew it for longer passages etc. The Lagoon 62 sits nice and high in the water. A great platform for long passages. And it's boom doesn't shadow where I'd put the solar panels. The Lagoon 52 and 56 are a problem in this area.

Decisions decisions.

Thanks,
Chaya
For impressing clients and spacious entertaining the L62 is gonna be hard to beat. I used to captain an L50 frequently and its quite nice, but the L62 layout...wow.

You can always have custom wood work added. Then you can go with more exotic hardwoods if you want for a more custom touch. The L50 I used to captain had quite a few custom touches including a pop up big screen TV in its own custom cabinetry (beautiful work).

I dont like wood of any kind, just maintenance waiting to happen, but my late wife did...so...lots of custom intetior wood work on my little W35 as a result. Custom built teak flooring and 19 custom draws and cabinets!

If you do go for custom wood work then try and find someome who does megayacht level wood work. We happened to have a friend who did and his work is artisan grade...beautiful.
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