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Old 17-09-2015, 09:56   #31
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by Bulawayo View Post
...

As for 38ft cats long distance cruising; there are plenty of cats out there in this bracket doing exactly that. It was not that long ago that a typical cruising boat was less then 38ft - it is a recent (say last 25years) where cruisers have adopted larger boats.

...
Shhh, dont tell any of the cats in the attached pic, all 38' or less, they cannot cruise safely. Taken from the bow of my horribly unsafe 35' cat in the San Blas.

In sequence:

Bow in foreground: Wildcat 35.

FP Athena 38'

Lagoon 37'

Island Spirit 35'
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Old 17-09-2015, 10:30   #32
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Shhh, dont tell any of the cats in the attached pic, all 38' or less, they cannot cruise safely. Taken from the bow of my horribly unsafe 35' cat in the San Blas.

In sequence:

Bow in foreground: Wildcat 35.

FP Athena 38'

Lagoon 37'

Island Spirit 35'
Sorry Belize...... is that photoshop?!?
What is the name of the Island Spirit 35ftin your pics? Ive never seen or heard of ours since we sold her after sailing from Cape Town to Turkey on her which was well within her capability, despite some of the worst weather we have ever seen or experienced before or since.
She was a fantastically capable world cruiser at just 35ft.
Despite the fact that we have carried Jordan series drogues for many years I still believe we would have come through each event even without the drogue. However, it does make any difficult situation so much more comfortable and what could be tense times actually become non-events. They are likely one of the most expensive bits of safety kit that you can invest in but, boy, are they great to have. Once experienced you'll never want to sail without one again. Oddly, we seem to experience less bad weather since we started carrying one of these beasts - another illusion, I'm sure, but one I am happy to accept.
The fact that seems to be lost in the middle of the postings is that until about 25 years ago, the majority of world girdling sail boats were less than 40ft. In my opinion the optimum size of cat is possibly exactly of around that size, 35-38ft. Unfortunately for me, I am physically too large for many boats of that size and also have too large a family to fit in.
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Old 17-09-2015, 10:49   #33
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
What is that I see in your profile data? A new boat already? Did I miss a thread on this? Did you get tired of mowing lawns and gardening so soon?



Mark

Yes a new boat, couldn't pass it up:-). The boat is on the hard in North Carolina and we are in Galveston getting ready to build a couple of houses, so yes tired of mowing as I now have 2 lots and our house that I have to mow. Hopefully we will get better acquainted with the boat next spring. Are y'all still in South Florida?


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Old 17-09-2015, 10:50   #34
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

You have my blessing to circumnavigate in your 38' catamaran. Have a safe trip.
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Old 17-09-2015, 10:51   #35
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Shhh, dont tell any of the cats in the attached pic, all 38' or less, they cannot cruise safely. Taken from the bow of my horribly unsafe 35' cat in the San Blas.

In sequence:

Bow in foreground: Wildcat 35.

FP Athena 38'

Lagoon 37'

Island Spirit 35'

Would the Island Spirit be "Hanalei Moon" the original strip plank plug for the Island Spirit 35?


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Old 17-09-2015, 10:54   #36
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
Are y'all still in South Florida?
Chesapeake, but heading back South in a week or two.

Congrats on your new boat. I don't know that one, although the tris are famous.

Too bad it is too unsafe to take it out sailing.

Mark
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Old 17-09-2015, 11:38   #37
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by Bulawayo View Post
Sorry Belize...... is that photoshop?!?
What is the name of the Island Spirit 35ftin your pics? Ive never seen or heard of ours since we sold her after sailing from Cape Town to Turkey on her which was well within her capability, despite some of the worst weather we have ever seen or experienced before or since.
She was a fantastically capable world cruiser at just 35ft.
Despite the fact that we have carried Jordan series drogues for many years I still believe we would have come through each event even without the drogue. However, it does make any difficult situation so much more comfortable and what could be tense times actually become non-events. They are likely one of the most expensive bits of safety kit that you can invest in but, boy, are they great to have. Once experienced you'll never want to sail without one again. Oddly, we seem to experience less bad weather since we started carrying one of these beasts - another illusion, I'm sure, but one I am happy to accept.
The fact that seems to be lost in the middle of the postings is that until about 25 years ago, the majority of world girdling sail boats were less than 40ft. In my opinion the optimum size of cat is possibly exactly of around that size, 35-38ft. Unfortunately for me, I am physically too large for many boats of that size and also have too large a family to fit in.






Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Would the Island Spirit be "Hanalei Moon" the original strip plank plug for the Island Spirit 35?


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Never got around to meeting the folks on the IS, and dont recall the boat name, we were just in the same anchorage for a couple of nights...then they took off to SAIL to somewhere else...crazy people, dont they know better! Pic was taken earlier this year in San Blas, Panama.

Carrying a drogue is probably a bit like putting on your rain gear...not gonna rain for sure. Leave the drogue ashore and youre probably gonna get hammered. Ive been carrying a drogue around for a long time and yet to really need it. Important option for a cat offshore to have though I think. I have considered deploying it when surfing was getting a bit too brisk for comfort, but have not (I think a device you could rapidly deploy on a cat, like right at the moment you break into that high pucker factor surf has potential...somethink like a metal grid near the stern under the bridge deck that could be dropped by pulling a lever and then raised easily...just an idea at this point). Put the sea anchor in storage years ago...might load it back aboard if going transoceanic, but not for near coastal.
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Old 17-09-2015, 11:48   #38
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

My neighbour left South Africa on a 33ft Dean to travel the world. They left as a family of three and arrived back, five years later after having circumnavigated as a family of 5. Yes, they clearly didnt have a TV.
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Old 17-09-2015, 11:52   #39
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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They left as a family of three and arrived back, five years later after having circumnavigated as a family of 5.
Pretty much proves to me the danger of a small catamaran.

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Old 17-09-2015, 11:57   #40
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Chesapeake, but heading back South in a week or two.



Congrats on your new boat. I don't know that one, although the tris are famous.



Too bad it is too unsafe to take it out sailing.



Mark

Thanks, and yes she is very unsafe. We put her in the water and she kept tipping over, that's why we have her on the hard:-(.


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Old 17-09-2015, 15:08   #41
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

To Skip JayR - and your comment, "I never heard of Catamarans using drogues or parachut anchors... thats mostly theory...". I have! I clearly remember seeing Sir Peter Blake & his big cat, Enza, screaming / surfing along past the Isle of Wight on the final part of his Jules Verne race whilst using all possible brakes.

This snippet from the Sir Peter Blake Trust website which details the entire record-breaking race:
"Out into the Atlantic at last, Enza opened up its lead again and the record was tantalisingly close. But, the worst of the weather still lurked ahead. A menacing North Atlantic storm was building across their path. As storm-force winds and waves pounded the English Channel, the French ports were closed and all ferry sailings cancelled.

In mountainous seas, Enza was at risk of being pitchpoled and, even with all sail down was careering along too fast. To maintain control, the crew had to deploy a drogue made up of anchor chain and long warps cast in a loop from each transom. Blake described the closing stages of the Enza bid as "the worst 24 hours of my life", but at last, still streaming the drogue behind them, Enza crossed the finish line on April 1, 1994.

This Youtube clip of that finish shows what a big cat like Enza can do: - and how they used everything and anything at hand to reduce speed in those storm conditions.
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Old 17-09-2015, 16:10   #42
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

This fellow I have found to have a ton of experience with storms on a catamaran and has used parachutes drogues and such ...very educational and some harrowing stories.

Blue Water Catamaran - Exit Only Sails Offshore Around The World.* Captain Dave - Privilege 39

Much luck and happy shopping for the dream boat!

Mike
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Old 17-09-2015, 16:44   #43
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

Howdy.

You have already received good info and opinions from other members who do own cats.

I don't own a cat, so I don't have an opinion based on personal experience. But, the size of what I would want if doing a circumnavigation (as a couple) has been something I considered.

Seeing how the boat responds to typical sailing conditions is good. A video helps.

I have enjoyed seeing what a young couple did to voyage on a Lagoon 380 from the East Coast of USA to Australia. The boat is "SV Honeymoon." They created a series of over 20 video logs VLOGS that show the many places (Caribbean, Panama Canal, Galapagos, Marquesas, Tahiti, Bora Bora, Cook Islands, Tonga, Australia, etc.) I would like to see if doing a typical circumnavigation route. Their videos are nice and it looks like they really enjoyed the boat. There is one video (#27) that is a tour of their boat, where the owner points out features of the boat (they were selling at the end of their trip).

I created a playlist on Youtube that makes it easy to see the videos in sequence. There are 23 videos. I enjoyed seeing them and recommend them whether you pick a mono or multi for your voyage. Here is a link to the playlist:

https://youtu.be/ENQ5C_7S6lk?list=PL...5oY3_tUtVFKMXk
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Old 17-09-2015, 16:59   #44
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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I've got a trip schedule to meet with a very well established boat broker in fort lauderdale in a couple weeks.

I will be there to sniff out cats I might consider purchasing in the 38 to 45 foot range.

My question to the kind, experienced and thoughtful CF audience is this:

Is a 38 too small to take on atlantic and/or pacific crossings? Would you have a minimum length you would consider more generally suitable?

I have never done this so I wonder if your degree of comfort in a smaller vessel, say 38 verses 44, varies by orders of magnitude, a wee bit, or not so much.

What are the differences physically for the crew? Does it take a lot more work to cope with rougher seas in a 38 vs 45?

I really like the smaller size jump (to a 38 footer) from the MacGregor 26m I used as a training boat for learning to sail. So this would be my first cruising size boat and I think I'm more comfortable jumping to a 38, just from the pics as I'm guessing.

I have learned so much and value the views of the readers and their detractors and their detractors.

I'm so jazzed to press my plan to circumnavigate. damn, lucky kid!
Think of all of those Lagoon and Leopard 38's in the Caribbean chartered out by Moorings, Sunsail and others. None of them were built there. I suspect that most every one was delivered from France or South Africa on its own hulls.

Know what you're doing, take the customary routes at the right time of year, do careful weather routing, and be conservative in boat, gear, and passage planning. You won't be the first!
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Old 17-09-2015, 17:39   #45
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Re: 38' cat OK to circumnavigate?

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Originally Posted by yotpop View Post
To Skip JayR - and your comment, "I never heard of Catamarans using drogues or parachut anchors... thats mostly theory...". I have! I clearly remember seeing Sir Peter Blake & his big cat, Enza, screaming / surfing along past the Isle of Wight on the final part of his Jules Verne race whilst using all possible brakes.

...
"...So the boat should not be too small for speed (I'd count it safely at an average cruising speed of at least 12-14 knots which requires a maximum speed of 18-20 knots)..." -SkipJayR

At an average of 14.7 knots overall, Enza just barely exceeded the criteria for being safe.

I've sailed a LOT of different cruising cats and there are damn few that will consistently run those kinds of AVERAGE speeds over a long haul. Better spring for a Chris White or a Gunboat if you want to be "safe".
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