30' Sailing tri

[Little Otter]

Cavalier, is that a picture of your boat? I like how that is set up, is that what you meant by having three reduced skegs? just so I know that I'm understanding you, you're saying that having a LAR or minikeels that are completely sealed vs being used for tankage will give a slight increase to load carrying capacity? my main aversion to Dagger boards is the whole lifting straight up thing. I like swing keels well enough but the finiteness of it must go straight up or it can cause serious damage bothers me. It's probably not a big deal if you're paying attention but it still irks me lol

[Cavalier MK2]

Not my boat but a Nicol Cavalier ketch. I have a Vagabond MK2 which has lower freeboard and a sloop rig. Yes that is what I meant about having 3 reduced skeg/keels versus a deeper one.

Yes, having hollow keels does increase buoyancy but it would be good to make provisions for checking them for water. Even a solid wood keel would increase the buoyancy to a lesser extent. Water is 64 pounds per cubic foot - say 36 pounds a cubic foot for fir leaves you a decent gain but lighter is better. You could use foam/ glass to then wouldn't have to worry about air space.

The trunks on those are designed to be stronger than the boards so you break the boards first. I'd go with the daggers myself. If you wanted more protection you could build them to take Newick styled crush boxes. Basically the bottom aft corner of the trunk is built swept back and into this space goes a renewable foam/cedar filler to act as a shock absorber. You could also put in float centerboards but that would take more space and have longer slots for more turbulence.

[Little Otter]

Thanks Cavalier, thats what i was thinking with the keels, I just wanted to make sure I was right in understanding you. Would foam and glass be lighter than fir? I'm not familiar with float centerboards, are they like normal ones but don't come down as far?

[Cavalier MK2]

Otter have you downloaded the Gougeon/West system boat building book yet? If you work through there are pages with material densities and how to estimate building costs and material requirements. This book will answer many of your questions when coupled to research on the web.

These tris can't be built with homestore ply, You need marine ply. For the 35 it would take something like 2 layers of 3/16 to get the 3/8" double diagonal skin. I'd recommend something like Hydrotek which is meranti made to BS1088. Okume is quite a bit more expensive and while lighter is less rot resistant.

I'm mentioning this to make sure you are working on the right cost estimates. Study plans for something you are interested in will let you price things out.

Centerboards can be made in many different configurations as you know. They would need a bit more area to compensate for the lower aspect ratio.

Did you check out the Seaclipper tris from John Marples at the Searunner site? Sheet ply, still has to be marine, construction and centerboards in the main hull. Picking something that already has the features you prefer is going to be a easier build. John is a easy guy to talk to and could help you implement changes you might want.

For example on the surface the Seaclipper 34 might seem a bit small with no wing deck accommodations and a 1500 lbs payload. However it might be worthwhile to contact John to see if it could be built with the wing extensions of the 38 with a LAR keel to give more payload.

On another approach you can play detective and try to find Jeff Turner to find Cross plans. I'm posting the cover sheet and some views for the Cross 10.5 which is the best Searunner alternative I've seen. Designed for simplicity and economy the layout makes a lot of sense. It is one of Norm's last boats as he was working on less expensive alternatives.

[Little Otter]

Thanks Cavalier, I just downloaded it (my personal computer just got fixed today lol)
I know it has to be marine ply, but wish It could be homedepot sheet ply that'd be awesome! And I appreciate your mention of the Hydrotek, I've seen Okume but hadn't heard of the other, as for the seaclippers, I have spoken to Mr. Marples on several occasions and have ound him to be a fantastic wealth of information. However I like like the lines of the Horstmans better than the SeaClippers or Searunners.As far as Jeff Turner goes I've wasted many many hours trying to track him down and just don't have the heart for it anymore I would rather just hope they turn up than to continue searching only to find they are lost

[Cavalier MK2]

Well, Ed is a great guy getting older and not known for a gentle dockside manner. I wouldn't mention keels. He is actually a NA who's background is in the aerospace industry and understands things like foils. Last time I checked he was living in a airplane hanger in Montana playing with things with wings. If you do mention Searunners tell him you don't like them. Jim Brown had some corny illustrations that made fun of Tristars and Ed still won't talk to Outrig.org. Good Luck on your quest.

[Little Otter]

LOL thanks for the tip Cavalier, I'll make sure to stay away from that topic

[Cavalier MK2]

You never know, it might educational.

[Little Otter]

If I could only make one change, I could live with dagger boards and it would probably be to put a sugar scoop transom with steps and a swim platform on the stern of the main hull.

[Cavalier MK2]

It's not really a good stern for that because it is narrow and you should allow for a kick up rudder. Ask Ed though. Adding steps is possible but the bottom is going to be really skinny. I'd think about a dive ladder off the wing deck next to the main hull. It might be neat to have it fold up under the wing so you could drop it while in the water.

[Little Otter]

I hadn't thought of that, but it's an awesome Idea, it'd definitely be really cool! maybe have a ladder with a small platform on it as the bottom step, like a shelf almost for setting gear on so you're not climbing up a ladder while wearing it.

[w32honu]

Otter,

If you are committed to the build idea....

I have a set of plans available for a Marples CC-37 FC. The boat was originally designed with an option for a mini keel as well as a centerboard arrangement. So not a lot of guess work or head scratching either way. I think it is a great design for an all around cruising boat. Lots of stuff on line about the boat.

If you are interested just PM me.

Steve

[ejlindahl]

I know you want to build but this could save you 100K and 3 years of hard work. Boats are enough of a project to give you plenty of opportunity to satisfy your need to build or make it "just the way you want it". Best wishes what ever you do.

[Little Otter]

This is certainly a post bump (please don't yell at me LOL). Well after two years of fighting Wildfires and working on the house i can finally get back to boat stuff. I have unfortunately come to accept that I won't be winning the lottery any time soon or retiring early. As such I have decided that the best thing to do (I think) will be to build a Hartley Lively 28' (thanks Hiqu!) as the size will sell better in my area, and sail it on the large local lake for a decade or so before building a 35' boat closer to retirement to sail around the world. my main question now is what am I getting into with the Hartley Trimaran? I can't find much about them (videos and the like) and I was wanting to see if anyone had information they wouldn't mind sharing. Thanks!