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Old 25-01-2013, 04:26   #31
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Boats is all about choices - and a lot of head scratching! Welcome to the club!
Thank you David, valuable advices. Definitely agree about the "club"... very daunting and time consuming process indeed. I never thought it would be so complicated.
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Old 25-01-2013, 06:06   #32
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

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Personally I would steer well clear of the Maverick because it is built in BALSA core / timber / think Bumfuzzle, Leopard, Charter Cats etc....

Sure there are plenty on here that would argue otherwise on the merits of a timber boat but would you rather a timber core or a solid foam sandwich tried and tested Lagoon?

I can't find the stats for the bridge deck clearance however it looks quite low as with many of the South African cats.
The Maverick comes in either balsa or PVC foam, with the major majority having been built with the foam core. A good example of the customizing to be had with a small boat builder. The bridgedeck clearance is almost 3'. When I first saw pictures of the boat I thought she was ugly. But having seen her in person she looks a lot better than the pictures would suggest. They are also reported to be quite quick.
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Old 25-01-2013, 15:49   #33
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

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Originally Posted by CountingCrows View Post
Honestly speaking, looking, negotiating, surveying, choosing a used one is a lot of hassle for me. I am not a sailor or hobbyist, and I do have a business to run. Too many choices is not a good thing. Look even I am confused on 3 choices (down to 2 actually).

For my usage, I will choose a smaller & new over used & bigger.
Fair enough

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M400 price is a real bargain, BTW (Even the new L380 price is good, comparing to what people are asking for their used boats). For sure if the seller puts it up on market, M400 will be snapped quickly. But I have the advantage of being where he is, cash in hand, can complete the deal in an hour's notice.

At this moment, since I am not able to choose, and since I am not able to bring the price of of an L380 any lower, and since my mind is set on the new L380... I will make an offer for M400...
Not sure we're following that logic, but hey...it's your show!

BTW we assume you've worked into your numbers whatever you might want to add to the L380? ...plus a bit for things you haven't thought of yet??


Re-reading all this again and now factoring in a bit better understanding of where you're coming from, we're now sliding toward the L380...
  • warranty & honest dealer support could be a major plus;
  • lots of other owners for after-warranty support;
  • proven vs relatively unknown builder;
  • solid re-sale market with a very well known model...altho you will also be limited in your asking price by that market!
  • your posted concerns re size, quality of materials, handling and age vis-a-vis the M400
Hang in there...and remember that cognitive dissonance is there to protect you, whichever way you go!
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Old 25-01-2013, 17:10   #34
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

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The bridgedeck clearance is almost 3'.
Measured from where? Based on this photo it will be dragging it's a-rse through 1 ft chop. The L380 as pictured has oodles of height.



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Old 25-01-2013, 18:05   #35
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Measured from where? Based on this photo it will be dragging it's a-rse through 1 ft chop. The L380 as pictured has oodles of height.
I've seen some other pics of the Mavericks clearance that make it look quite substantial. We dinghied around one in Ft. Lauderdale and it didnt strike me as having a low bridgedeck. The Lagoon also seems to have good bridgedeck clearance. Obviously you prefer the Lagoon and I the Maverick. So be it.
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Old 25-01-2013, 18:08   #36
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

I don't have a preference for either, just weighing them up for a comparison. The purchaser would need to confirm that this specific vessel is or isn't balsa if they have concerns about that. The clearance at the rear looks very like the Jaguar and Wildcat and has similar characteristics to Leopards too - low.
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Old 25-01-2013, 19:01   #37
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I don't have a preference for either, just weighing them up for a comparison. The purchaser would need to confirm that this specific vessel is or isn't balsa if they have concerns about that. The clearance at the rear looks very like the Jaguar and Wildcat and has similar characteristics to Leopards too - low.
No doubt for that kind of money there are other boats I would be looking at as well.
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Old 25-01-2013, 22:30   #38
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

At least one of the Mavericks had solid glass to waterline and rest foam.
I don't see a problem with basla below if done correctly. Email Rudi the builder.

Most Schonnings/Orams have balsa below waterline without issues. It is a potential problem however with shoddy builders.

Phil Southwell the designer own vessel Cosmo is somewhere in States and has been attending various boat shows. If it hasn't yet been sold it might be at the Miami boat show in Feburary.

Re boarding from a website "Amidships boarding steps, both to port & starboard, includes chain plates with mid ship cleats and life line gates."
There are a lot of pictures and discussion on Maverick on that other multihull website.

cheers
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Old 25-01-2013, 23:18   #39
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

I know Phil Southwell personally ... a great man and a great boat design. We sailed together in the Caribbean last year and we were very impressed with his Maverick. They are great people and always willing to listen and be of assistance. We are happy with our 440 Lagoon and probably will be happy with the resale value but after sales service with Lagoon is something that simply does not exist. I think Rudi Pretorius and Phil Southwell will bend over backwards to make sure their flag flies high ... of course the Mavericks have different finishes according to ones request so I would look into that when purchasing a used one. I think the one Phil sailed to the USA is up for sale now? That was a great looking Maverick and Phil and his late wife (who were tied up next to our boat in Cape Town ) had put their personal touches into the boat ... Cosmeledo! Definitely one to look at!
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Old 26-01-2013, 00:27   #40
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

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Not sure we're following that logic, but hey...it's your show!
Let me be a bit more clearer.

Some things are personality traits. I like to purchase new items, because new items will present less problems, since wear & tear is not something you should factor in. Warranty takes care of problems (I will admit that I live in a 3rd world country, and consumer protection is not as strong as it is in US or EU). But nonetheless, when I had problelms, warranty always took care of them for me.

But also, I like to own new things, because I like the feeling of... having something unused!

M400 is not old, but if I buy it, knowing my personality, I know that I will have to replace and refit everything on it (except mechanical/electronic items). This would take a whole lotta time.

Since this is not going to be a live-aboard, and mainly used for coastal cruising, or just to escape from the noise of a crowded city... have a BBQ, fishing, a bit sailing, etc... bigger does not necessarily mean better for me. Remember, I am a beginner, and I have a business to run.

Now for new Lagoon... I have driven the price down as much as possible (by using Mahe 36 card). It is no longer possible to get it any cheaper (unless I can figure out a way to save on 40K euro shipping).

M400 has the same price with Lagoon. Yes it has tons of extras, and I know that the cost of a cat can be doubled with the options... But do I really need $15K watermaker in future? I don't think so.


The owner of M400 is not negotiating on the price, and I honestly think it is already selling less than it should (compared to couple of other M400 prices or what it would cost to own a new one).

So I will just make him an offer $50K less than his asking price. Whether he takes it or not, he will have made the choice for me.

Too many choices are never a good thing. It creates confusion. I am sick and tired of being have to choose all my life (sometimes I wish I was living in commie Soviet Union). This might be fun for you seasoned sailors, but it definitely is not fun for a beginner like me. Even when I was buying my house, I could not decide on last 2 options and I had to flip a coin to do the deciding for me!

I hope I am more clear now.

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Old 26-01-2013, 00:43   #41
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

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No doubt for that kind of money there are other boats I would be looking at as well.
All that is certain is that new L380 and old M400 is the same price.

I am trying to get honest opinions of you experienced folks here to help me make an educated choice.

I might have disclosed wrong figures (intentionally) for various reasons, main one being to protect my options.

I would release the exact figures once I buy the cat. But for sure, I know how much what costs -- I know how to read yatchworld or manufacturer options lists.

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Old 26-01-2013, 04:27   #42
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

I'm sure someone on here can offer to sail it to you for less than 40k euros!
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Old 26-01-2013, 04:38   #43
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

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I'm sure someone on here can offer to sail it to you for less than 40k euros!
Pirate zone + wear & tear + insurance and all would cost probably more. Skipper is not an option.

I was thinking more like road transport to Med coast of France and shipping from there. Or some similiar idea.
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Old 26-01-2013, 11:20   #44
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

Are you comparing the cost of the 380 plus the ~40k euro to the cost of the M400? Also, are you pricing out the 380 with all the options you will need plus the extras that you will inevitably purchase with any new boat?

It sounds like you are leaning towards an emotional purchase, which is fine. Just be sure to do your due diligence before making the decision.
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Old 26-01-2013, 16:35   #45
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Re: 2013 Lagoon 380 or 2010 Maverick 400?

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Are you comparing the cost of the 380 plus the ~40k euro to the cost of the M400?
Yes I am. Wouldnt be much of a comparison if total cost of ownership would differ, would it? They come equal.
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