2002 lagoon 410

[SV Bacchus]

If that is the one in Apollo Beach I looked at it a few months ago. He had it with a Broker from Bradenton at the time.

Fairly nice boat and I did like it. I was concerned that the owner did a lot of the wiring and the genset install himself. I did see what appeared to be mold on the ceiling of the aft port cabin, look for it.

Owner/seller is a likable guy but boy is he ever a talker!

Noteworthy?? that the vessel has been on the market for quite a while?

At any rate, if you get it I want a ride!

[Xtalpowell]

How funny, it is that boat.
Just wondering what do think it's worth?
Also I'm an engineer and a licensed electrician so fixing some wiring is not to be a deal. As long as it's not totally hosed.
I've worked in the oilfield as a diver and on cable ships.I can fix just about anything but I don't want to buy a basket case because I just don't have the time for huge restoration projects.

[Xtalpowell]

I'm wondering if we will be able to find a 40ft cat for 200k that is in good condition.

[SV Bacchus]

I honestly am not well enough versed in used 410 prices, I had been looking at 440s, but my thought at the time was that he was at or over the upper end. I wasn't sure how negotiable he might be but I was thinking if the boat could be bought for under $210K I would be happy with it. But that is just me and YMMV! I really know very little so if you pay more no big deal. If you get it for less, Bargain!

I did like the boat.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Our L410 was sold as 220v and the new owner planned to keep her that way.
Converting a genset, AC, watermaker, dive compressor, water heater, charger/inverter, etc would have cost a fortune.

If you plan on anchoring out mostly there is no need to convert as you will live on solar and the 220v genset anyway.

If you were talking about a simple 30' mono with just a couple of outlets and not much else in terms of alternating current and plan to live an electrically simplistic life on he hook, I agree it's not much of an issue.

But a boat with a genset, AC, watermaker, etc... is not representative of the electrically simple lifestyle. Over time, those devices will break down and getting 220v replacements will both be a hassle and extra cost. You'll need to work out voltage conversion for when you are on shore power. Then when it comes time to sell people will shy away or reduce their offers unless you put in the time effort and cost of shipping the boat overseas to sell which brings it's own set of complications.

So for a fairly large complex boat that will move on a permanent basis to a land with different voltage, it really makes sense to assume you will convert to the local voltage.

[surf_sail]

Have you looked at or asked someone else to look at the other lower priced 410s on yachtworld? At the least it could help you assess the fair price for this boat or maybe help with the negotiation to come back to the owner with actual lower priced comps.

[SV Bacchus]

Originally Posted by surf_sail

Have you looked at or asked someone else to look at the other lower priced 410s on yachtworld? At the least it could help you assess the fair price for this boat or maybe help with the negotiation to come back to the owner with actual lower priced comps.

Now that is good advice!

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by Xtalpowell

I'm wondering if we will be able to find a 40ft cat for 200k that is in good condition.

I've thought a bit about this question and I would guess most 15 year old cats will require some serious maintenance.

Not sure if you've had time to read Nate's blog that I mentioned. He essentially bought the same boat three years ago. One of his insights I really liked was that he said if he would have to do it over again he would actually look for a slightly older boat. His thought was that it's better to buy a boat where most of the the original equipment had already been replaced / refit. He thought his 15 yr old lagoon was right at the point where everything was needing to be scrapped and he details a ton of maintenance issues he had including having to completely rewire his engines (despite survey and test sails).

I'm not sure how well Nate's advice would work in practice, but if looking at a similar boat I would be quite keen to understand the RECENT usage level.

The theory would be that all else being equal, when buying an older boat look for one that has been used heavily recently but if buying a 1-5 year boat look for one that was used lightly. The thought is that a recently heavily used boat has already tested and replaced all the weak points, versus if you buy a hanger queen weak points will quickly give out once you start putting the boat under some strain...

Full disclosure: this is just my theory I don't have any experience to back it up.

Good luck

[ranchero76]

There are quite few Lagoons in 200k range, but not many in States.
Few even listed close to 150K, might worth traveling.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?cit=true&slim=quick&ybw=&sm=3&se archtype=advancedsearch&Ntk=boatsEN&Ntt=&is=false& man=lagoon&hmid=0&ftid=0&enid=0&type=%28Sail%29&fr omLength=40&toLength=46&fromYear=2001&toYear=2017& fromPrice=30000&toPrice=222000&luom=126¤cyid=100&c ity=&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you were talking about a simple 30' mono with just a couple of outlets and not much else in terms of alternating current and plan to live an electrically simplistic life on he hook, I agree it's not much of an issue.

But a boat with a genset, AC, watermaker, etc... is not representative of the electrically simple lifestyle. Over time, those devices will break down and getting 220v replacements will both be a hassle and extra cost. You'll need to work out voltage conversion for when you are on shore power. Then when it comes time to sell people will shy away or reduce their offers unless you put in the time effort and cost of shipping the boat overseas to sell which brings it's own set of complications.

So for a fairly large complex boat that will move on a permanent basis to a land with different voltage, it really makes sense to assume you will convert to the local voltage.

Power conversion for a small boat with few systems is easy and cheap. For a bigger boat it get very expensive.

Replacing our perfectly working systems (some almost unused) with new 110v systems of equal quality would have cost well above 40k USD. Just the Mastervolt genset alone was 15k USD back then plus installation, the big watermaker about the same.


I'd rather just replace systems/parts as they break over time. Getting 220v parts may take a week longer and cost a few percent more. But to me that makes economical sense.

As for selling, the next buyer might want to cruise the Med on 220v. You never know.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by ranchero76

There are quite few Lagoons in 200k range, but not many in States.
Few even listed close to 150K, might worth traveling.

All the low ones around 150k USD are 4cabin ex-charter boats.

This one is a private 3cabin owners version:

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Power conversion for a small boat with few systems is easy and cheap. For a bigger boat it get very expensive.

Replacing our perfectly working systems (some almost unused) with new 110v systems of equal quality would have cost well above 40k USD. Just the Mastervolt genset alone was 15k USD back then plus installation, the big watermaker about the same.


I'd rather just replace systems/parts as they break over time. Getting 220v parts may take a week longer and cost a few percent more. But to me that makes economical sense.

As for selling, the next buyer might want to cruise the Med on 220v. You never know.

EXACTLY!!!! You prove my point that it needs to be discounted for the electric system that doesn't match.

On an boat with a lot of electrical equipment it can be a lot of dollars to convert and even if you don't, it will be extra dollars and extra hassle to keep it running. When the air/con fails in humid 95F Florida and you have to put up with miserable conditions for an extra 2 weeks or pay an extra $200 for express shipping from the continent for the 220v parts...

As for the next buyer, I'm betting better than 90% of east coast buyers will want 110v-60h power on the boat, so they will discount it's value. Yeah, you might get the rare bird who wants to immediately head overseas but the vast majority cruise locally and want a boat that fits the local conditions including electric.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

EXACTLY!!!! You prove my point that it needs to be discounted for the electric system that doesn't match.

On an boat with a lot of electrical equipment it can be a lot of dollars to convert and even if you don't, it will be extra dollars and extra hassle to keep it running. When the air/con fails in humid 95F Florida and you have to put up with miserable conditions for an extra 2 weeks or pay an extra $200 for express shipping from the continent for the 220v parts...

As for the next buyer, I'm betting better than 90% of east coast buyers will want 110v-60h power on the boat, so they will discount it's value. Yeah, you might get the rare bird who wants to immediately head overseas but the vast majority cruise locally and want a boat that fits the local conditions including electric.

If you interpret it that way. You just need to find a seller who agrees that a 220v boat is worth much less than a 110v. Even though it has 110v more to offer

All I'm saying is that many folks living on the hook don't really need to convert, so they don't need to factor in the cost. While some folks grumble about voltages of some good boat it may be picked up by someone who simply doesn't care.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by rabbi

If you interpret it that way. You just need to find a seller who agrees that a 220v boat is worth much less than a 110v. Even though it has 110v more to offer

More realistically, you don't buy overseas unless you can get if for much lower but if as you suggest it's $40k to convert, I would probably want $60k off minimum before considering the costs associated with getting the boat back home.

All I'm saying is that many folks living on the hook don't really need to convert, so they don't need to factor in the cost. While some folks grumble about voltages of some good boat it may be picked up by someone who simply doesn't care.

Even living on the hook, it's a problem getting parts and a big complicated boat will have periodic problems. Bigger issue in the long run is eventual resale will probably eat up more than the $40k to convert as buyers typically discount heavily for unknowns and assume full retail cost of conversion when putting in offers.

Again if we are talking a small electrically simple boat or a limited duration trip and then return, I agree. It doesn't matter much.

But for a large electrically complex boat, the idea that there may be this unicorn of a buyer who won't heavily discount their offer is wishful thinking. Even if they are planning to take it back home, the savvy buyer will discount knowing the market won't give you a lot of other buyers who don't discount their offers.

[surf_sail]

Seems like the simplest conversion option is to ensure your battery charger can handle 110 and 220 (i believe most due) and then get an inverter large enough to handle all AC needs. What are the downside to this approach? (Other than sourcing parts)