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Old 03-10-2015, 09:42   #16
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

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Originally Posted by jdazey View Post
There you go stirring up trouble
Would saying a Dutchman (or person) been less contreversial?
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:53   #17
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

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Would saying a Dutchman (or person) been less contreversial?
The first one was trouble. This one is double trouble. What's next?.....Tripletrouble

Back on task. If you're interested in sailing performance, there's a lot to be said for 49' of catamaran. Just be careful not to pay too much. The market for these boats is very small. I know we'll be over-invested in ours so we'll have to write off the financial loss to sailing pleasure and quality of life on the ocean.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:57   #18
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

I'll go to my corner and be quiet!
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:54   #19
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

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"on this site" - do you mean on this thread? I see only one surveyor mentioned and my research indicates he is accredited, certified, and well respected.
????
Boatguy30 is right, anyone can get accredited to become a surveyor with a bit of work, but once you are discredited its pretty hard to get it back.

FSmike, no where on SAMS site, The Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors, Inc.® - (SAMS®) is he listed nor NAMS, and adding a fuzzy icon that's non legible doesn on your web page doesn't mean squat.
I could post I am a brain surgeon on my business page, doesn't mean I am one, perhaps someone he worked with once was certified. he is not now, and if you have him do a survey and the insurance gets involved due to an accident or loss, there is a great chance that if your insurance company finds out they will discredit it and deny your claim or at best make you get another survey.

Just saying, I would recommend a real surveyor, someone who is really in it, not a yacht broker playing surveyor playing yacht broker
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:25   #20
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

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Originally Posted by jdazey View Post
Warning--potential thread drift:

I'm on the board of directors for a hull insurance pool (Pacific Trollers Fund), and as a result, I see a lot of surveys. I hired Jonathan Sands on the basis of an older survey he did of the same boat. I requested a pre-purchase survey which included rigging and fluid analysis. While I won't disagree that many surveys/surveyors leave a lot to be desired, the two surveys from Jonathan Sands are far and away the most accurate and detailed of any I've seen. I hope this will be my last boat. If not, I'll hire Jonathan to survey the next one.

My wife and I briefly considered Kraken and decided to pass as it's more of a project than we wanted to take on (and it's ORANGE). We bought a boat in better apparent condition and still expect to put $60,000 into refitting. Kraken could still be a good deal for the right people and at the right price, just don't underestimate the cost of fixing her up.
Yep! That orange would have to go.
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:30   #21
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

I'm not quite sure what this is about.
I've already posted my experience using him, and a Google search failed to turn anything but positive reviews. I agree that having SAMS or NAM certification is only a rough indicator; the extremely positive reports from other users is a better guide.
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:52   #22
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

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Originally Posted by jdazey View Post
I'm not quite sure what this is about.
I've already posted my experience using him, and a Google search failed to turn anything but positive reviews. I agree that having SAMS or NAM certification is only a rough indicator; the extremely positive reports from other users is a better guide.
Years ago a satisfied customer tells 3 a dissatisfied tells 8. Today, I am sure, with the ease of bitching the ratio is much larger. Google is great for fact, opinion?
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Old 03-10-2015, 12:30   #23
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

As to my background I am 56, a mechanical engineer, and had boats all my life. I have had a 34' twin screw for 10 years (Great Lakes). I originally wanted to retire on a cat trawler but thought that once I retire a sail would be a nice addition. I crewed about 10X on a 36' mono and on two weeklong BVI bareboats on 46 and 50' mono's. I bareboated a 43' leopard cat for a week in the BVI. I have my basic, coastal, and multi sailing certs. I have Calders' and 30 other books and have been researching cat cruising for nearly 8 years. I have been to 4 multihull boatshows in Annapolis and Miami and attended seminars and I am an avid forum follower. As I mentioned my wife gets claustrophobic under 42' for live aboard. Our plan is to buy a cat in lieu of a condo in FL, putter at upgrades for 5-7 years, and then slowly sail the Bahamas and coconut run. I am a bit of a cheap a$$ and insist on spending the time and legwork to get a good boat for a good price, I prefer performance but the Leopard felt fast to me. I really dont see myself putting over about $250K into a boat, financially. I would like to spend about $3K monthly in living expenses, probably pay off the boat. Good catch on the potentially heavy stern, surprised no experienced structural cat architects have been forwarded. I would think that someone extremely experienced blessing a custom design would be critical - not just a surveyor. Having a heavily retrofitted 49' cat for about $250K seems about half off to me...
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Old 03-10-2015, 12:57   #24
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

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As to my background I am 56, a mechanical engineer, and had boats all my life. I have had a 34' twin screw for 10 years (Great Lakes). I originally wanted to retire on a cat trawler but thought that once I retire a sail would be a nice addition. I crewed about 10X on a 36' mono and on two weeklong BVI bareboats on 46 and 50' mono's. I bareboated a 43' leopard cat for a week in the BVI. I have my basic, coastal, and multi sailing certs. I have Calders' and 30 other books and have been researching cat cruising for nearly 8 years. I have been to 4 multihull boatshows in Annapolis and Miami and attended seminars and I am an avid forum follower. As I mentioned my wife gets claustrophobic under 42' for live aboard. Our plan is to buy a cat in lieu of a condo in FL, putter at upgrades for 5-7 years, and then slowly sail the Bahamas and coconut run. I am a bit of a cheap a$$ and insist on spending the time and legwork to get a good boat for a good price, I prefer performance but the Leopard felt fast to me. I really dont see myself putting over about $250K into a boat, financially. I would like to spend about $3K monthly in living expenses, probably pay off the boat. Good catch on the potentially heavy stern, surprised no experienced structural cat architects have been forwarded. I would think that someone extremely experienced blessing a custom design would be critical - not just a surveyor. Having a heavily retrofitted 49' cat for about $250K seems about half off to me...
Custom has a stigma with insurance co.s. You may want to consider or investigate that?
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Old 03-10-2015, 15:54   #25
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

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Originally Posted by Thenaz007 View Post
As to my background I am 56, a mechanical engineer, and had boats all my life. I have had a 34' twin screw for 10 years (Great Lakes). I originally wanted to retire on a cat trawler but thought that once I retire a sail would be a nice addition. I crewed about 10X on a 36' mono and on two weeklong BVI bareboats on 46 and 50' mono's. I bareboated a 43' leopard cat for a week in the BVI. I have my basic, coastal, and multi sailing certs. I have Calders' and 30 other books and have been researching cat cruising for nearly 8 years. I have been to 4 multihull boatshows in Annapolis and Miami and attended seminars and I am an avid forum follower. As I mentioned my wife gets claustrophobic under 42' for live aboard. Our plan is to buy a cat in lieu of a condo in FL, putter at upgrades for 5-7 years, and then slowly sail the Bahamas and coconut run. I am a bit of a cheap a$$ and insist on spending the time and legwork to get a good boat for a good price, I prefer performance but the Leopard felt fast to me. I really dont see myself putting over about $250K into a boat, financially. I would like to spend about $3K monthly in living expenses, probably pay off the boat. Good catch on the potentially heavy stern, surprised no experienced structural cat architects have been forwarded. I would think that someone extremely experienced blessing a custom design would be critical - not just a surveyor. Having a heavily retrofitted 49' cat for about $250K seems about half off to me...
The asking price is $200,000. Kraken has several strikes against it for the general catamaran market, but if _you_ like the boat and everything else checks out, try an offer of $140K or $150K. You might still make it work with your budget. Boats like this (and mine) sit around for a long time. Eventually the seller realizes that the money going into moorage, insurance, and maintenance is chipping away at any return he can expect. The market for large custom cats is so small that in this case you may be that market.
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Old 03-10-2015, 16:48   #26
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

This boat could quite probably be built much better and be much stronger than the production boats found on the market today. It probably won't have a great resale value because it's strip planked in epoxy and many consider it to be a wooden boat. Yet Leopards are balsa core encapsulated with polyester and they seem to be considered top quality, and considered to be composite rather than wood, go figure. We looked at an absolutely beautiful strip planked 48' cat that had just been repowered with the latest electric drives and two brand new 12kw generators. You guessed it, two strikes, wood and diesel electric. I think it sold somewhere in the 170k-180k range and it was cherry. My guess is she should sell for considerably less than the 200k but maybe a great boat if in good shape and of a good design.


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Old 03-10-2015, 23:32   #27
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

NOTE TO THE OP:

My in depth initial reply was based on what "Facts" that you presented in your initial post in this thread. And (as it, Now, comes to light) I had ZERO real world (ACCURATE) information on said vessel.
And the information presented in the opening post, later turned out to be Grossly INCORRECT, & or LEFT OUT. With regards to the vessel in question.

My (2st, In Depth) response was based on details which (THEN) were written as; The Boat's Needing new; propulsion, sail inventory, & ALL of the other items which I delineated.
Things which later proved to be Not At All the case.

As to your purchase, good luck.
However, I Definitely wont be offering up any more advice. PARTICULARLY when the details which I am basing such on are a "moving target". IE; Are Changing, & or Incomplete Facts (SIC).
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Old 04-10-2015, 05:00   #28
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Years ago a satisfied customer tells 3 a dissatisfied tells 8. Today, I am sure, with the ease of bitching the ratio is much larger. Google is great for fact, opinion?
There's are several really good reasons someone who has discovered their surveyor was a hack job doesn't come right out with it, I suspect when it happens the flood gates will open
Insurance complications, resale values, etc etc I know of 5 people who had the talked about "surveyor" miss obvious major things, copy and paste surveys to the point of idiocy, and needing to redo surveys etc
I don't wish thread drift too far. Kracken looks like a sweet cat, I'd be very cautious regarding a surveyor who knows that type of construction and can prove it with references. Not just smooth talk

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Old 04-10-2015, 07:07   #29
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

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Last I checked you send SAMS $2500/ year and you're a "respected" surveyor. I myself have thought of becoming a surveyor but the entire system is really a scam...
Certified Marine Surveyor (NAMS-CMS) is an “Earned” credential from the National Association of Marine Surveyors.
Accredited Marine Surveyor (SAMS-AMS) is an “Earned” credential from the Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors.

SAMS Accredited Marine Surveyor®

1. Candidates must be currently practicing marine surveyors with at least five (5) years surveying experience, accumulated within the past ten (10) years, in the field of expertise which accreditation is desired. Credit of up to three (3) years of the five (5) years required may be granted for related marine experience. Acceptability of related marine experience shall be determined by the membership committee and/or Board of Directors.

2. Applicants must affirm that they will abide by the By-Laws Code of Ethics, Standards, official decisions and amendments to such of the Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors (SAMS®).

3. Candidates must complete an application form, supply a complete resume and submit for review a number of surveys as may be required by the Membership Committee.

4. Candidates must successfully complete a written exam on their selected field of accreditation as prescribed by the Testing Committee and conducted by that Committee or their designated representative. Cost related to administration of said examination shall be born by the candidates. Examinations will be reviewed by the Testing Committee and submitted to the Membership Committee.

5. Applicants must agree to participate in and meet all requirements of the Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors' (SAMS®) program of continuing education as established by the Education Committee and/or Board of Directors.

More (SAMS) ➥ Classifications
And (NAMS) ➥ http://namsglobal.org/about/membership-requirements/
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Old 04-10-2015, 07:22   #30
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Re: 1996 Custom 49' Cat in New Smyrna

Exactly, you earn it by paying up. All they require is a "sample" survey from each year are claiming experience. They you affirm allegiance just like Donald Trump did.
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