Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-05-2015, 23:24   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7
15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

First off, please take it easy on a newby to the forum. I'll start off by saying I'm no sailing expert nor claiming to even be a newby to sailing. My wife and I are looking to start getting into the sport/lifestyle.

A little background for my first post. Currently my wife (of 9 years next week) and I are in our mid 30's, love the water and are enjoying our 2nd year living on a land based waterfront home. Boating and fishing is in our blood and everything we do is based around the water. Getting into sailing is next on our list and have plenty to learn.

Our retirement goal would be on the water giving up our (or my) fast pace coorporate job and slowing down to guiding fishing trips (shallow water fly fishing), or building boats and/or furniture, or maybe cruising the Caribbean and maybe the world on a boat.

So instead of buying a house on land and being stuck to one island or one location, which would drive me nuts as I get older, we're looking into living aboard. And of course realize we have our research and time to put into getting to know the risks and cost associated.

This leads me to my number one quest for my perfect live aboard sailboat. Having the capability to carry a 15'-16' Poling Skiff made for fishing shallow water flats. We like all the sailing and living features of a cat sailboat and the main feature I like is the location of storing the tender/dinghy. I'd probably have to make the skiff myself to get the weight down and having a recessed transom tucking in the motor would help keep the length down.

Your thoughts and guidance in what size multi-hull sailboat and brand has room between hulls for a tender/dinghy of the size mentioned above would be greatly appreciated. As for the poling skiff the weight with 40-50hp motor/fuel would be less than 600-700lbs all synthetic composite and probably vacuum infused.
__________________

__________________
little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2015, 23:41   #2
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

I'd also like to think sitting on a custom deck with chocks would be the best thing for hull strengh, longevity and long/safe travels.
__________________

__________________
little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 03:42   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,571
Images: 240
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, little.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 05:15   #4
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

I think the only cat that could handle a tender that size and weight would be a Voyage 50 or 58. I have a 56' cat and the max length I can fit between the hulls to lift up is 13.5' and really just 13'. I would guess most 44' cats would max at 12' and then they hang out the back quite a bit.

Personally though, a skiff wouldn't be my choice for all around cruising. Look at defender.com and check out their rigged boats. Some are very nice and more sensible for actually going somewhere. Remember that if your going to trade your home for a boat, the tender is the car. I'm preferable to a car that can get me anywhere, not just to the grocery store.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 06:51   #5
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

Totally agree Palarran and thanks for the dimension measurements between your cat's hulls and feedback. More manufacture dimensions from the cat's mouth is greatly appreciated from others.

The fishing skiff could and would be used as our vehicle but would mainly be used for fishing and if I decided to run trips tote clients around. I've been running and building 12'-18' 25hp-50 hp skiffs for the greater half of my life so I know their limits. And limits they have, but so does any 10-13' standard dinghy. The worst limit to the skiff is safety in emergency and that's where a second rib would give comfort in major crossings.

I've been thinking the need for a small 5-8 hp rib style grocery getter would also be needed and would travel on the bow motorless. While the skiff travels on the stanard stern lift. Plus the wife will need something to travel to land with if I'm off fishing/working.

It looks like I'll need to research boats with either steaper steps into the water off the transom or boats with narrower steps. But if i started building my own custom sailboat I could have it completed in 15-20 years, haha.

Sorry for the unorthodox cruising question guys/gals. Cheers.
__________________
little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 07:56   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

Hello little - Palarran has it right >> a big tender requires a big mother ship. This requirement will be exacerbated if you choose also to have a "normal" dinghy as well.

I recommend you thoroughly think through what you expect your cruising lifestyle will require, as you obviously have already started to do, but consider other activities/chores you'll have to conduct in addition to fishing. Will you need to land your tender on a steep beach with a shore break? Will you and your wife be able to drag it up the beach and secure it to whatever is available so it won't wash away while you venture over the dune or walk to town? This is why the Admiral and I have "just" a 10' RIB with a 9.9 2 stroke Yami. Sure, when we have to carry two visiting guests, it won't plane, but that's the compromise we make. Most of the time it's just the two of us. If your cruising lifestyle will be such that you'll always have a dock to tie up your dink to, or will have frequent guests to take ashore for them to buy you dinner, then get the biggest one you want that your mothership can hoist. Beware that dinghy davits capacities vary from boat to boat.

We enjoy flats fishing as well and manage OK in our typical RIB. I don't think the fish know the difference - or perhaps they conclude we're not serious because we don't have a real flats boat. We get out and wade much of the time, anyway. Regardless we've done very well with the bonefish but do not ask me to divulge our secret spots.....

edit: I first missed your reference to "clients", so you plan to run a guide service? That's a whole other consideration.

Dave
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 08:40   #7
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by little View Post
The worst limit to the skiff is safety in emergency and that's where a second rib would give comfort in major crossings.


Sorry for the unorthodox cruising question guys/gals. Cheers.
I know your at the beginning of your planning but don't count on your dingy to give you much comfort in a crossing unless your afraid of fires. And for your first post's your doing well so no worries

I'm getting one of these for next year. Super excited.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	A_13_Perspective_with_Single_Jockey_Seat.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	48.8 KB
ID:	102562  
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 09:45   #8
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,872
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

Welcome to CF Little.... and your first post is an interesting challenge.

I am a firm believer that the quality of your tender really can dictate the quality of you watersport activities.

From your posts above....you obviously know what you want and I agree keeping the Centre of Gravity of the skiff low on deck chocks is the best solution.

Thinking outside the box.... consider a transom arrangement where the skiff pockets between the hulls at the stern but FORE & AFT.
Lifted up to deck level and seated on custom chocks that bridge the 2 hulls.

I would even pocket the smaller Rib inside the skiff for easier deployment.

Just a thought and something to play with in your search for the mothership.
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 10:09   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,764
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

I've actually seen a cat, roughly 45', at Roberts grove in Belize with a flats skiff as the tender. It fit well between the hulls but did make the stern squat a bit.
It is possible, but is a trade off.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 14:15   #10
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
I've actually seen a cat, roughly 45', at Roberts grove in Belize with a flats skiff as the tender. It fit well between the hulls but did make the stern squat a bit.
It is possible, but is a trade off.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

So you're saying there's a chance.... I'm positive I can build the skiff to weigh the same or less as most conventional RIB's or heavier dinghys but If I had to extend the skiff away from the stern even a foot my skiff weight on the sailboat versus a conventional dinghy mounted tight to the stern on the sailboat would grow substantially. But figuring this out only makes the challenge more fun.

Boy would a picture be worth a thousand words right now. Thanks Sail Monkey.
__________________
little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 14:28   #11
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,326
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

a. Mid-30s? Think about this in 20 years.

b. Start sailing. You may hate it. You may hate living aboard.

c. The person you are now will not be the person you are at 65.

d. You may not be fishing the flats for 20-30 years. You may have a different interest. You weren't fishing the flats 30 years ago, so things must change.

That said...

a. If you are on a boat to start with, you won't need any 50hp to get you around the flats. You will be nearer where you are going.

b. I've fished flats in a kayak. Fun.

c. Most likely any cat you would want to live on could be customized to fit something that will work. I would learn to sail and what type of boat I like first.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 14:50   #12
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
I recommend you thoroughly think through what you expect your cruising lifestyle will require, as you obviously have already started to do, but consider other activities/chores you'll have to conduct in addition to fishing. Will you need to land your tender on a steep beach with a shore break? Will you and your wife be able to drag it up the beach and secure it to whatever is available so it won't wash away while you venture over the dune or walk to town?

I understand a skiff is not as easy to pull on land nor would I want to, but I don't think it's a issue anchoring right off the beach like we always do. Even in our past Bahamian adventures.


Beware that dinghy davits capacities vary from boat to boat.

Been thinking about this and can't find published data from manufacturer's website on davit capacities. But that might be because I have not looked hard enough.


We enjoy flats fishing as well and manage OK in our typical RIB. I don't think the fish know the difference - or perhaps they conclude we're not serious because we don't have a real flats boat. We get out and wade much of the time, anyway. Regardless we've done very well with the bonefish but do not ask me to divulge our secret spots.....

edit: I first missed your reference to "clients", so you plan to run a guide service? That's a whole other consideration.

I love to entertain and I have a rather large contact base in the US so depending on country rules and guidelines (which I'm still looking into) I would really enjoy guiding existing and new clients. But to attract such clients that have the funds to pay to play I'll need the tools they are accustomed to using, this is where the skiff comes into play. It would be compared to a person getting into sailboat chartering with boat not fitted for the existing sailboat chartering business. The clients who are used to and can afford to charter a sailboat are looking for nice, clean, well kept boats designed for chartering. I would think a charter boat company would be unproductive with a fleet of plastic or rubber 45' sailboats. Same goes for fly fisherman who would pay to fly to a far away place, get on a sailboat and sail to a hard to reach area and then spend a few days or weeks living and fishing.

If it was just my wife and I, I could make it work with just a way to get from point A to point B and wadefish. If I want to get poled around to fish I'd hire a local to take me. Or make friends with someone who owns a skiff local and make some trades with them and live it up on my sailboat worry free. It takes two people to enjoy a poling skiff for what it's intended to do, and my wife only has a few hours in her a day to push me around the flats when she want to go read or sit on the beach and sun/sleep while i'm off wadefishing. And maybe that's where you come into play. haha

Dave
See above in italics. Thanks for the response.
__________________
little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 14:56   #13
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

[QUOTE=Palarran;1830888] but don't count on your dingy to give you much comfort in a crossing unless your afraid of fires. QUOTE]

IMO, a rib is safer than a skiff if you ever had to use it as a life raft for any reason (maybe not in a crossing) due to an rib being a better self bailing design with better floatation qualities.
__________________
little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 15:06   #14
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 7
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
a. Mid-30s? Think about this in 20 years.

b. Start sailing. You may hate it. You may hate living aboard.

c. The person you are now will not be the person you are at 65.

d. You may not be fishing the flats for 20-30 years. You may have a different interest. You weren't fishing the flats 30 years ago, so things must change.

That said...

a. If you are on a boat to start with, you won't need any 50hp to get you around the flats. You will be nearer where you are going.

b. I've fished flats in a kayak. Fun.

c. Most likely any cat you would want to live on could be customized to fit something that will work. I would learn to sail and what type of boat I like first.
Couldn't agree more. The goals now are to do exactly what you mentioned above and start with the basics. We both have our ideas of what we'd like to do later in life and in the past 9 years those have changed slightly, but not much. If we make this move we'd still be in our 40's and not wait until we're in our 60's. By then I might not need a sailboat, I'll just use my floating space planeboat and go whereever we want to on our engines that run on a mixture corn/water moonshine fuel.

The 40-50 hp is really based on having to travel with 3-4 people onboard and being able to have a unit to have some fun watersports (ski, wakeboard, etc). Otherwise I'd stick to a 10hp or less.
__________________
little is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-05-2015, 16:16   #15
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 4,326
Re: 15'-16' Tender/Dinghy Doable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by little View Post
Couldn't agree more. The goals now are to do exactly what you mentioned above and start with the basics. We both have our ideas of what we'd like to do later in life and in the past 9 years those have changed slightly, but not much. If we make this move we'd still be in our 40's and not wait until we're in our 60's. By then I might not need a sailboat, I'll just use my floating space planeboat and go whereever we want to on our engines that run on a mixture corn/water moonshine fuel.

The 40-50 hp is really based on having to travel with 3-4 people onboard and being able to have a unit to have some fun watersports (ski, wakeboard, etc). Otherwise I'd stick to a 10hp or less.
For what it is worth, I started sailing beach cats in my 20s, Stilettos in my 30s, and my current cat in my 40s. All though that I've maintained a passion for rock and ice climbing. But now in my 50s, I'm looking at retirement very soon (or rather a transition to something far more laid back), and some of your points are relevant. Years of pounding in sports have caused considerable wear, some things I'm just bored with (skis, rock climbing), and I have new sporting interests (kayak, ice climbing). So just start somewhere and embrace change!

And with a good cat you can always fit toys. We have a 34' cat and can easily carry an out-board inflatable, 2 kayaks, 2 bikes, snorkel stuff, and can troll 5 lines with outriggers. Lotsa fun.
__________________

__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing

Writing full-time since 2014.
Bookstore:http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...ook-store.html
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dinghy, tender

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Baltic to Med via Canals - Doable? Normanby Europe & Mediterranean 23 13-11-2015 11:22
Cruising in the winter in the Southern Med Doable or not? CookiesnTequila Europe & Mediterranean 132 28-03-2015 20:01
Is this Doable?? itsallgood Destinations 6 25-11-2012 11:28
What Type Dinghy / Tender ? GordMay Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 145 04-07-2011 13:41
Bahamas Doable with 7' Draft ? tgrimmett Atlantic & the Caribbean 5 06-01-2006 10:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.