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Old 06-11-2015, 21:52   #46
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less than one hour to sail for Macif....

less than one hour to sail for Macif.... ETA: 05:48 am UTC to finish TJV2015 -LiveTracker: http://bit.ly/1Nyw9Zq
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Old 07-11-2015, 00:51   #47
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Maxi Trimaran Macif wins TJV2015: Congrats to François Gabart & Pascal Bidégorry

Maxi Trimaran Macif wins TJV2015: Congrats to François Gabart & Pascal Bidégorry

At dawn around 04:00 am local time (06:04 am UTC) on Saturday morning front Brazil coast / Itajai the Maxi Trimaran MACIF with skippers François Gabart & Pascal Bidégorry crossed the finish line after the start on French coast (Le Havre) 12 days 17hours and 29’27” minutes ago…. First snaps of the arrival just coming in. – Congrats !




2nd place behind is Trimaran Sodebo still 80 nm front coast. Thomas et Jean-Luc will arrive in next 3-4 hours. See live tracker: Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 : Le Havre - Itajai. Suivi Cartographique


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Old 07-11-2015, 03:39   #48
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
including monohulls have air compartments that make them unthinkable. .
I wouldn't like to think about sinking either.

But at the end of the day, what happens in a race like this is of as much relevance to F1 and driving a Mazda 3
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Old 07-11-2015, 04:53   #49
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

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I wouldn't like to think about sinking either.

But at the end of the day, what happens in a race like this is of as much relevance to F1 and driving a Mazda 3
Not so much since the hull of this monohulls is the major influence regarding hull design evolution on most modern designed cruiser boats and some have already the same characteristics in what regards water tight compartments. A pity that we cannot say the same regarding the influence of the multihulls on this race regarding the main evolution of modern designed cruising multihulls (and I mean it, not making fun).

Anyway the poster that refereed that monohulls would sink was referring to this race (he was talking about a racing capsized trimaran that did not sunk) and obviously what I said referred to his post and the boats on this race.

Regarding the race Gabart showed that he is the man (or should we say the kid) to be beaten. On Monohulls and Multihulls he is the best at the moment.

Regarding other classes, on Open60's PRB and Riou clearly went away from Armel and Yann. If that is normal regarding Yann's boat, that is an "old" boat, regarding Armel that does not seem normal to me and probably Armel is fighting to bring home the last surviving Open60 with the new foils. I bet the boat has some problems.

Regarding 40 class the race for the 2th is has interesting as it was before but now reduced to two boats. The third one that has fighting for that place had to stop at Cabo Verde to make some repairs on the rudder and is now another point of interest on the race: They are 5th now and they are charging to see if they can recover at least to 4th place. They are the fastest 40class boat on the race now.

http://tracking.transat-jacques-vabre.com/en/
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Old 07-11-2015, 06:16   #50
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

The video when MACiF is coming in and crossing the finish line....
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3...f-ultime_sport
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Old 07-11-2015, 12:19   #51
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Multi50 front IMOCA...

huhu.... that might become a tough battle between IMOCA and Multi50... now Multi50 Fenetrian Prismyian is front leading IMOCA PRB with 5.4 nm closer to target. Cool. But PRB has a higher speed (16 kn) compared to Fenetrian Prismyian (14.7 kn).

Still more than 1210 nm to go.... some unexpected surprises can come along.
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Old 07-11-2015, 13:35   #52
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

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Originally Posted by Skip JayR View Post
Thats an illusion, Polux. They are not the best sailors. These are guys with different skills, with good talents for good sailing. By sure they have physical strength and mental power on a higher level compared to "normal people". But it needs much, much more.... e.g. a good trainer, coach, mentors, well wishers, managers... and the luck to be in the right time in the right place to get the sponsor contract. Its all about "luck" and not only hard work. Naturally such sailors must do their homeworks, do physical fitness training to keep them on higher shape. But even sailors with a fat buddha belly got their sponsor contracts, surprisingly. So its more about "relationships".

Trust me as I have been involved in America's cup, Volvo Ocean Race, BT Challenge projects and others...

Just to give you a simple example. So called "Telegenic appeal" became very relevant over last 20 years... the marketing chiefs, product managers and advertising consultants proof in details, if the "face", the "voice" of the sailor/skipper fits the needs of the brand and image campaign to create the highest possibly identification between brand, sailor and target group = potential buyers of the sponsor's product. In other words: Gabart has the right look to attract the Macif customers best way. For another sponsor in another branch he might not be very attractive, whatever top level sailing skills he might have.

You are a dreamer if you think, it is just sailing skills. E.g. if a sponsor expects to cover with a sailor the Spanish language speaking market but he lacks of Spanish language skills, he just wont get the chance to be financed as his interviews front camera and microphone would needed a simultaneous translator. So simply it is that deals are not contracted.

Or a sponsor looks for a sailor who has wife and two kids because he is the right person to attract the target group, while another sponsor expects a young sailor who is still single without family as this might have the negative image of "being too conservative". Whatever...

Many, many top sailors with huge talents out there never will get their chances, because they just miss the "grain of luck" to be in the wrong time in the wrong place, and not being born with the genes which are "fashion" nowadays.

Big Sports and event sponsorship is a huge puzzle which makes it to become successfully, whatever branch it is (e.g. musician, artist, sportsman). If you dont have the well wishers around, you wont get your chances. So it works since thousands of years. And believe me, behind the "curtain" and "closed doors" there are going brutal fights to grab the sponsor's budgets. There is also concurrence between the different competitors.. and fights between the team managers. Not just a fun thing. Even there you find betraying, corruption as we see it now with FIFA and Olympics committees.

Anyhow... in less than 2 hours the Maxi Macif will head cross the finish line... and your insights from your perspectives are welcome (in my thread).

But not urgently it needs heroism for these sailing legionaries. its part of our modern societies, and thanks via Internet we can participate nearby in real time around the globe.... while thousands of refugees swap into Europe every day without anything for living just some plastic bags in hands and little children are freezing not having winter shoes on their feet. Or let me say it more simply: There are some more important things in this world to care for and become emotionally than some "spoilt skippers" who can have fun on their huge expensive man's toys. Its just a modern form of entertainment.

Happy Sailing ! - Happy weekend !

P.S.: And before you become too emotionally in my thread and start a harsh tone of judging read carefully my wordings. I dont make it very easy for my sailng buddies to understand what I like to express, as I expect they use their brains and read in details. I am not of yellow press to make it simply.

I had my doubts, that after such a crash as we have seen it from Yvan Bourgnon and Gilles Lamiréare's Trimaran a monohull had the chance to sail back on own keel. I dont think so. The trimaran made it back to harbour slow motion under own sails power. Thats impressive. I didnt talk about sinking related to racing monohulls.... and I only said, a Trimaran works more safely like a life raft compared to a normal monohull. Maybe I missed to say, that I related this to "normal (cruising) boats" as still there is the negative image and fears, that catamarans/trimarans arent safe boats. A bad stigma we have to hear for more then 25 years still in the heads of hobby sailors.

A racing monohull would have been abandoned with such heavy crash in the bow section not possible to steer safely keeping on course... and later being towed back by a MV.By sure.
Long post but with the right tone.

Starting from the end I believe you are wrong. The Amas of a multihull are less strong than the hull of a monohull. Last year on the Vendee globe there was two Open 60's that collided at night with big trawlers that had not their AIS working. Both had to retire even if both were able to bring the boats to port.

Each case is a case.

Regarding French professional top sailors you are wrong. Probably right in what regards low or medium level professional racers. There are a huge number of professional sail racers in France and I was referring to the more popular category, solo sailors.

Regarding that is like F1. Really top pilots are searched by the brands while medium and low level pilots (if we can talk about a low level F1 pilot) has to bring Sponsors with them.

Regarding François Gabart we are really talking about the top, a guy that was coached by the previous best sailing pilot (at the expenses of the Sponsors that owned the boats, because here a top boat lasts only about 4 years). That previous best sailor and coach was Michel Desjoyeauxthat works for the same sponsor.It seems you are new at the Offshore solo racing scene and you are much welcomed but I follow this for the last 20 years or so. From adventure we passed to very high professionalism and the top racers to arrive at the rudder of a top class have to have proven for year that they are among the best on the lower classes of solo racing, a bit like a F1 driver.

with 14 years of age Gabart was France Optimist Champion, with 15 years, Moth France champion, with 16 years, Tornado Junior World Champion...but when he really enter on the major league of solo sailors (far away from the Open60's yet) with 19 years of age he was only been able to do 16th place on the Figaro.

Next year he as noted as a young talent (made 13th on the Figaro) and offered a post of co-Skipper on this race. The top boats on this race have normally a top solo racer and a talented young sailor that is still learning the ropes. Having reached there with 20 years was just amazing. He has done very good on that race and with Kito de Pavant as skipper they have made an outstanding 2th place.

From there it was always up and fast, with 21 he was French Solo Racing champion (Figaro class) and made 2th on the Figaro race. With 22 he was is the skipper of a Open'60 and won the first Transat solo. To cut it short in 2013 with 24 years of age he was by far the youngest solo sailor to won the Vendee Globe, the most famous solo circumnavigation race.

That's when he earn the nickname:the Kid that has not a pejorative, meaning quite the contrary, the only kid that was ever able to beat hugely experienced racers on a race where experience used to count a lot. Till there the normal age to win that race was about 40/45: Very good and experienced professionals at the top of their carriers.

Now he is making another wide jump to glory, mastering not only Monohulls but Multihuuls and winning its first big race on one...and on the top class. Well, he was not Junior world champion on Tornado for nothing

That as given me a lot of work. I hope it makes you a bigger fan of these races and that I was able to explain to you why the French consider the kid a special one, with parallel only with Frank Cammas, but Cammas is another story
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Old 07-11-2015, 22:23   #53
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Magnifique Sodebo arrived under fully sails and took 2nd place...

In high professional sports (business) there is the slogan: "The winner takes it all". Indeed, 2nd place already is nothing worth. So the rules in a media centralized world. Its hard reality. But we may not forget who came in on Saturday morning local time front Brazil coast.



While Macif has arrived at early dawn 04:00 am local time (probably the worstest situation for any sponsor as no good images can be delivered to press around the globe) SODEBO came in couple of hours later approaching very slowly the finish line under fuly sails with lots of tagging at very low winds (see the video) and flat water.



Here the video on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/26175774926...type=2&theater

... and on YT:



Congrats to Thomas and Jean-Luc !! - In my understanding they sailed tactically the better race compared with their direct opponent Macif looking back to the Canary Islands where Sodebo still had the lead.

The lesson we learn from this high-tech world of top class sail racing: Having the elder boat with 2 tons more weight and lacking of modern trimming units, e.g. foil system can destroy any chances for winning such a competition.



We look back and remember that Thomas sailed his first Maxi Trimaran Sodebo (launched in June 2007) and in 2008-2009 successfully sailed around the globe in 59 days, 20 hrs. and 47'43''. - In May 2014 Thomas got his new Maxi Trimaran of 31 meter length we now have seen during the TJV2015. Its hard to recognize, that it is already an "old boat". I have my doubts that it will be competitive seeing the new Maxi Trimaran coming in 2017 being built by Gitana Sailing Team. - Racing boats have a very short life in times of Carbon light displacement and computer aided design !
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Old 07-11-2015, 22:45   #54
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

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That as given me a lot of work. I hope it makes you a bigger fan of these races and that I was able to explain to you why the French consider the kid a special one, with parallel only with Frank Cammas, but Cammas is another story
I appreciate your insights. Yes, I was more than 10 years out of sailing (in total). In 2004 I realized a project for "sailing therapy on tall ships". So slowly since summer this year I try to find back to "get upgraded" to the latest status. Not too difficult as "sailng is (still) sailing" with the same (physical) princips. And its great to see the new foiling scene which gives a kick to learn something newly. - Naturally on a different and higher level. As the world turns faster same we see this progress reflected on the water with modern designs.

In the 90th we had a huge barrier to France... not only by language. It was an own cosmos of sail racing like on a far distant planet. Till today it seems like a miracle to see all these events and racing mashines coming out of France.

Luckily this situation has changed positively, little bit as sail racing events went globally via Internet.... and some designers mixed up the French scene like Nigel Irens. - But still French Trimaran sail racing with its centre in Lorient follows its own rules, with an own identity. No other nation can celebrate their sailing talents and "kids" like heros who become legends forever as we may remember Eric Taberly or Florence Arthaud - the Jeanne d'Arc of French sail racing. I had the luck to meet her personally in the Barcelona Race village for THE RACE end of 2000. It was a real shock we have lost her by a helicopter accident spring this year.

The next mekka for multihull sailing is far away down under the Aussies and Kiwis same have their very uniquely scene. The US sail racing scene I count as something differently remembering Dennis Conner's strike with his catamaran in 1988. I suppose Larry Ellison and Oracle Team would even take a submarine to win the America's cup if the rules would allow it. I have my doubts that US folks have an identity with multihulls generally and Trimarans specifically as we know it from France.

Luckily nowadays we all can learn from each other. I am still on the search to find my own place back in this wonderful world of sailing, boating, yachting and community of sailors.

So I really appreciate it to know you all in this forum and such a lively discussion. Fantastique !!
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Old 07-11-2015, 23:09   #55
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Behind the skipper...

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Now he is making another wide jump to glory, mastering not only Monohulls but Multihuuls and winning its first big race on one...and on the top class. Well, he was not Junior world champion on Tornado for nothing
I think here something should change. We all know what it means to handle such big boats. A dinghi like a tiny foiling Moth can be handled by the sailor himself, doing all the maintenance, transportation, repairings etc. ... it is similarly what we know in GoCart where teenagers learn the basics of circuit racing later we can see the best talents sitting in a Formula 1 racing car. E.g. Michael Schumacher did...



(Rec.: Michael became in 1987 German and European Gocart Champion.)

Such giants like the Maix trimarans of 80-110 ft. length and all the other high performantly racing mashines (e.g. Orma 60, Mod 70 etc. ....) need a huge backbone on land.

The different construction teams around the designer, plus the riggers, sail makers, foil/rudder/keel specialists, mast builders etc. .... its a huge team which is needed to launch such kind of boats.

And during a race like the TJV it needs a huge team for running the boat safely with all repairs, maintenances and refittings like we know as pit stop crews in Formula 1.

I think, we'd need such kind of "construction champoinship", where the racing/sailing teams can fight for their own trophy as we know it in Formula 1, there called "Formula One World Constructor's Championship".

So many people working behind the skippers, unknown faces, unknown names, silently doing daily and in many night shifts the "dirty work". But they are very relevant for any single attempt a skipper likes to take for setting new records or winning a short distance, long distance, trans ocean regatta or match race.

Meanwhile we have such kind of "professional sail racing teams" similarly to Formula 1 racing teams (e.g. Mercedes/AMG/Petronas, Williams, Ferrari, McLaren Honda, Lotus F1, Sauber F1).

Gitana, BAR, Bank Populaire, Spindrift, Groupama, Oracle Team, TNZ, RedBull and some different others can be named as professional racing teams... as we see their logos on different circuits in different classes, on different boats.

A kind of "Constructor's Championship" would give some respect to all these "busy bees" who deliver (just) in time the racing mashines we can enjoy as spectators.

Success in Sail Racing is the result of Team work (not only on board) ! - We never should forget this...
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Old 07-11-2015, 23:39   #56
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

SkipJayR,

Thanks for the thread. It has been very interesting.

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Old 08-11-2015, 05:51   #57
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

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Thanks for the thread. It has been very interesting.
The Race is yet not over, Ann ! :-) We still have three classes racing the TJV.
  • IMOCA... 1st PRB 946 nm (14 knots) till finish line
  • Multi50... 1st FenetreA Prysmian 940 nm (13 knots) to go
  • Class 40... 1st Le Conservateur 2307 nm (7 knots) far away from finish line.
I suppose it will take another 2 weeks till we see the last boat crossing the finish line. Its only a short jump over the Atlantic within 2 weeks for the gigantic 110 foot Trimarans sailing their own race.

Anyhow... great you liked the little "chit-chat" in this thread... was little bit lame in the beginning till the dismasting of IMOCA Hugo Boss but developed nicely.

Happy Sailing !
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Old 08-11-2015, 06:22   #58
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Re: Magnifique Sodebo arrived under fully sails and took 2nd place...

Quote:
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Congrats to Thomas and Jean-Luc !! - In my understanding they sailed tactically the better race compared with their direct opponent Macif looking back to the Canary Islands where Sodebo still had the lead.

The lesson we learn from this high-tech world of top class sail racing: Having the elder boat with 2 tons more weight and lacking of modern trimming units, e.g. foil system can destroy any chances for winning such a competition.



We look back and remember that Thomas sailed his first Maxi Trimaran Sodebo (launched in June 2007) and in 2008-2009 successfully sailed around the globe in 59 days, 20 hrs. and 47'43''. - In May 2014 Thomas got his new Maxi Trimaran of 31 meter length we now have seen during the TJV2015. Its hard to recognize, that it is already an "old boat". I have my doubts that it will be competitive seeing the new Maxi Trimaran coming in 2017 being built by Gitana Sailing Team. - Racing boats have a very short life in times of Carbon light displacement and computer aided design !
You mean the one that lost the race sailed better????

You seem to think Sodebo is an "old" boat inferior to Macif when in fact both boats have very similar performances. That's why for a time Sodebo was ahead and during much of the race they sailed with the same pace.

You seem to think that the new Sodebo (2014) was something to do with the old one (2007) and that is not true. It is a new boat made out of an extensive modification of Geronimo, the record breaking boat of Olivier de Kersauson (2001). All the foils are state of the art new ones.
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Old 08-11-2015, 06:54   #59
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

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..
  • IMOCA... 1st PRB 946 nm (14 knots) till finish line
  • Multi50... 1st FenetreA Prysmian 940 nm (13 knots) to go
  • Class 40... 1st Le Conservateur 2307 nm (7 knots) far away from finish line.
I suppose it will take another 2 weeks till we see the last boat crossing the finish line. Its only a short jump over the Atlantic within 2 weeks for the gigantic 110 foot Trimarans sailing their own race.
Yes, great sailing and great racing

As I said previously the first Muli50 is going to arrive ahead of the First Open60, given the sea and wind conditions (downwind, mostly medium winds). The only hope for the Open 60 to arriving ahead would be uphind sailing or strong and stormy seas and that is not going to happen.

The best average speed of the Open 60 on the last 4 hours is only due to having more wind pressure then the Multi50 but that is going to change. Anyway, boats with not very different performances, with different weak and strong points in what regards sailing.

Now the biggest points of interest seem to be the fight on Open 60 between Riou and Armel, two of the best, the first from the old generation the last from the new one, I mean regarding sailors, since in what regards boats it is the opposite

Also remarkable on Multi50 the recuperation of Thierry Bouchard that is going to overtake Lalou and earn a more than deserved 2nd place (he stopped in Cabo Verde for repairs).

On class 40 the leader, Bestaven seems untouchable unless something happens to the boat and the big fight is for 2nd with Duc and Sorel going very near each other for a long, long time.

I have said that already but it is so unusual that it deserves to be known: the co-Skipper of Sorel is Sam Manuard, the NA that designed that boat and also "Solidaires en Peloton" that is now on 5th, trying to recover after having to stop on Cabo Verde for rudder repairs. that boat has also the curiosity of being a production race boat made in NZ.
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Old 09-11-2015, 05:31   #60
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

The tansat race continues to be very interesting. Contrary to what was expected, given the performance of the boats under that conditions, Le Roux on the Multi 50 has not been able to go away from Riou on the Open60. The difference of VMG on the last 24 hours is only of 0.1k on boats doing close to 14K.

Great sailing by Riou/Col. If they manage to keep up with the Multi 50 (very improbable on those sea and wind conditions) the "race" between the two will be decided on the very weak winds around Itajai, at the finish line.

Fantastic performance from Bouchard and Ciela village that has not only overtook (and left behind) the other Multi50, as had managed to pass the older Open60's. A pity that stop for repairs on Cabo Verde, otherwise we would be fighting for victory on the Multi 50 with Le Roux.

On the class 40 the first 5 entered on the doldrums and there almost anything can happen. 2th and 3th are separated for only a bit more than a mile! and have been very close for a long, long time.

Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 : Le Havre - Itajai. Suivi Cartographique
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