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Old 31-10-2015, 18:29   #16
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Cool video, they make it look easy and simple, and from first hand experience I know it isnt
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Old 01-11-2015, 06:35   #17
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Info on TJV website says HB capsized while hove to.

It does take some energy to capsize an IMOCA.

Next time you are trying to tell people here not to hove to in very bad conditions you hear again that the Pardeys ....

Like reading the news is such a hard thing or do we immediately forget what we have just read?

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Old 01-11-2015, 08:37   #18
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Hola..... now you all wake up after the "boss" diseaster (I no more will write it in big letters as I expext from a leader something differently) ???

Yeah... it was a nightmare this whole week.... not fun at all to watch as sailor. And as I did this job professionally I have some critical views onto the whole scenario.

Seeing floating "the boss" clearly let understand even a newbee that there must have been a real disaster on board:


Quote:
UPDATE:

Alex Thomson and Guillermo Altadill are now back on land after a successful rescue from the Spanish coast guard this afternoon. The Alex Thomson Racing Team is now heading back out to sea to bring HUGO BOSS safely ashore.
The skippers had made a second repair and were hove to (this is where the yacht is stationary and comfortably sits head to wind). The reason for slowing the racing yacht was to prevent any unnecessary damage. Whilst waiting for the weather to clear a rogue wave caught HUGO BOSS causing the yacht to turn upside down. Alex and Guillermo managed to close the hatches and secure the situation whilst inverted. Alex immediately hit the keel button, bringing the IMOCA back upright. They then alerted the rescue services and technical team of an emergency situation. The yacht had taken onboard a substantial amount of water and the rig had sustained damage requiring the skippers to leave the yacht.
Alex Thomson explains ‘It was an incredibly unusual event and we need to understand why it happened. It was a rogue wave, but we should not have inverted the way that we did. I am now going to go with the technical team and ensure a successful recovery of our new racing yacht.’
Little bit more on Scuttlebut...
Coast Guard Rescue for HUGO BOSS >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

I am really upset. Shocking to see a drifting wreck of 100% carbon. Such a 60 ft flipped over ???? Strange.... I cant remember, that the Team management talked about a "dismasted boat" before, right ?

All the PR sounded kind of "little damages... we tried to repair it on the way, but for safetyness we abandon".

Hello..... what you want tell us ???? We talk about a 60 foot boat, not about an 18 ft tinny dinghy. Its not sailing on the lake or wind protected bay around buyos.

I see it like this: As soon "big money" is destroying "fair play", e.g. avoiding an open and direct communication with the audience... then something is going heavily wrong.

Yes, I already mentioned it... its a PR super gau for Mercedes and Boss... a boat less than 10 days in the water and now a wreck !! The team has to bring the boat to land because of IMO... imagine next days a sailing yacht crashes at night into this drifting boat... marketing chiefs of Mercedes and Boss cannot afford it to take such risks then the "brand image damage" can quickly go into some hundreds of millions.

I address my critics first to the marketing chiefs and product managers: Guys, make your homework !!!! This has nothing to do with sail racing. That's "Russian Roulette" method. We sailors dont want hear, see or read such mad stories.

I am not interested to experience sports in a way which let me remember the "Old Rome" and Caesar's Colloseum. Watching Gladiators living and dying. That is stupid sensation seeking...

It is high tech sailing... but there is no excuse to say: The professional skippers (I like to call them more legions as they get paid for their sail racing job) must use light weighted boats otherwise its not modern racing and they do not have the chance to win.

That is a totally wrong argumentation. First: it is off shore racing, and not inner lake pacing around buoys where you can take the risks of capsizing and dismasting easily having RIBs around. Second: A long distance trans ocean race is still defined by old rule: The winner is who arrives safely the finish line. Thats it.

In car racing we have lots of different classes, where the racers are adapted (nearby) perfectly to the circuits and environment. From king class Formula 1 to up-hill race or Rallye Dakar and Dragster Races in a stadion... the cars are adapted to the environments.

For me the TJV2015 looks more like a Dragster race where we see steadily crashs in the stadion circuit... and not watching a "long distance trans ocean race" where a boat must go thousands of miles under heavy loads safely.

Observing the ongoing damages from beginning remembering the first abandoning by IMOCA of Gitana team I have the feeling, that some skippers used boats which are not built for difficult conditions of 40 knots and 6-7 meter waves.

But: Hellooooo !!!! This is the Atlantic in autumn and beginning season of winter storms. Did all the designers, boat builders, naval architects didnt make their home works to see what heavy loads such boats must handle over many days, over hundreds and thousands of miles ???

Maxi Tri Actual abandoned because of some heavily structural damages in the segment of the system for canting the mast. Looks really bad.




One only can imagine how heavily the loads must have been in this "bad weather" zone... or does know anybody more details about the circumstances ?

Pro Sailor/skipper Brian Thomson talks about a 10 tons load on the sheet for the canting mast on MOD70 Phaedo3..


But all these extremes are not an excuse... as seamanship exists over hundreds of years... its not a scenario human man can enters into first time full of unexpected surprises.

Another bad news yesterday evening:
Quote:
"Ciela Village is heading for Cape Verde for sail repairs. "
What kind of skippers, boat builders, designers, naval architects, rig masters, sail makers we have in 21st century who are involved in such huge expensive regatta projects ? - Feels like "spoilt little kids" gambling around having rich millionair/billionair daddies... not knowing how to handle expensive materials.

Every engineer who is working in the segments of industries, where we see extremly heavy loads, too.... e.g. mining, tunneling, building skyscrapers or gigantic bridges etc. .... cant afford such damages. It would kill hundreds of people's life. And every engineer would take the risk to sit for rest of his life in prison building such crap.

Back to "the boss": In my understanding Alex should learn his lesson too... from this diseaster. Maybe not wasting his time for spectacles like mast walking and jumping into the ocean from keel. All show making... Alex should invest his time to find a good sponsor as partner who takes it seriously with a trustworthy planning, and more important "pre-planning" + test phase.

As a spectator who invests his time watching I expect a good race.... not a perfect one... here and there damages very normal. But such a race mostly should be driven by tactis, sail skills, excellent weather navigation etc. ... and not waking up every morning having in mind: Which boat is capsized today ? Which crew has abandoned before evening ? Not at all fun to see a bunch of sailing folks who are spoilt with million heavy budgets presenting us such a "bad show".

Who gives me 5 million (HB costed 3.3 million only for the boat building) and I can gamble around like a little kid not knowing what I am doing just for having fun over some few days, with big media attention ? Hands up pls... :-)

Yes.... I am really upset... such folks should work in film and fashion industries where they can hype themselves weekly in yellow press.

Probably in some weeks we will get the news, that Alex gets a new boat for the Vende Globe... because the structural damages are too heavy.. and then again we see the same fools and greenhorns coming out of the meeting rooms having made stupid decisions just to hunt behind image with a new highly expensive campaign. No further interests from my side.

It is a farce having heard all these skippers who capsized, being dismasted and even being abandoned by coast guard have proclaimed their TJV participation as "training unit for the solo circumnavigation race Vende Globe 2016/2017".

Can anyone imagine all these "fragile boats" being crashed in one week under more difficult conditions in the roary fourties or the mighty Pacific ? An IMOCA non stop round the world ? Thats a joke, right ?
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:35   #19
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Bad news do not stop to come in... :-(

Quote:
From Race HQ:

This Sunday, the three times Transat Jacques Vabre winner Jean-Pierre Dick and Fabien Delahaye informed the race directors that they have been forced to abandon the Transat Jacques Vabre.
The St Michel Virbac duo discovered crack transverse ribs in their sail bin area. After discovering this on Friday the pair have sailed ot Madeira to further assess the damage and to effect repairs. But the team have taken the decision that this damage curtails their race.
Dick said today: "The boat in its current configuration, even repaired, is not strong enough to attempt a crossing of the Atlantic. We're not 100% sure that the boat is able to sail in the squalls that might be encountered in the Doldrums or at Cabo Frio, Brazil. This repair and reinforcement will take time. And for St Michel-Virbac to be able to race again It must be durable. "


What is your mindset?
JP Dick: "I am very disappointed but we must move on positively. We will go straight into a boat building process be able to sail safely and at 100% potential. Boats designed today are too fragile. We work now with the designers on Version 2 which is more consistent with the program. With my partners, we are frustrated not being able to finish the race but that's part and parcel of this game. These are racing prototypes. You need to update and evolve these prototypes. We knew we had a lot to learn with this new generation of boat foiler. And so we are already working to the future. "

What is the future program?
JP Dick: "We have two options: "To participate in the Transat B to B or to return to the base in Lorient. We will decide in the coming days. The decision depends on the repairs. "
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:45   #20
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

I posted this on another thread. I had not noticed this one. I am following the race too:

Yes I am following that race, a fantastic one. Posted on my blog about that (lots of movies).

What happened is that the sailed right to a storm and then some days later, another storm. There is a capsized trimaran, another hit a container and broke, lot's of Open 60's of the new generation with problems due to the new foils, several coming back, another hit something and has keel problems.

Probably the problems with the new Hugo boss have also to two in the new foils and new untried forces exercised for them on the boat structure. That's the first true race where they are used and obviously there is much work ahead to make them reliable.

| Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 : Le Havre - Itajai | October 2015 | Take to the seas and act for the planet
Transat Jacques Vabre

There is a fantastic race between the three first open 60's. These three stormed through the storm LOL and left way behind all 50 ft trimarans that even if faster with good conditions were unable to follow them.... and a lot of interesting fights on the other racing classes (all top racing boats).

Some fantastic movies on the site taken aboard the boatsd. It is rare to see this guys frightened, well this guys do not look very happy after they went through a wave with 60k wind:

Jour 6 - Le Souffle du Nord (Imoca)- Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 - vidéo Dailymotion

these guys are a bit wet:

Jour 2 - Bureau Vallée (IMOCA) - Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 - vidéo Dailymotion

and the older guy is one of my favorites:
Jour6- V and B (M. Sorel, S. Manuard) -Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 - vidéo Dailymotion

They are in 2th on the 40class boats. Nothing special if the older guy was not a Na, the one that designed that boat and other wining racers and several production ones.
Jour6- V and B (M. Sorel, S. Manuard) -Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 - vidéo Dailymotion

TipTopToo, minitransat 6.50 et autres voiliers de croisi?res modernes

That's a guy that surely don't now only about theory. I like him also a lot as a NA. He designed some fantastic boats like the Seascape 27:

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Old 01-11-2015, 10:33   #21
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Good you bring little bit colour into the thematic, Polux. And some names which race far behind the "big guys". Probably only because of these "no names" such events can take place fairly to say.

As this is the sub division for "multihulls" we mainly focus on the aspects seeing from the maxi trimarans (only two in the race) and multi50 (only two in the race). But it is not "lack of respect" we like to demonstrate the hard work so many of the "smaller boats" invested. Probably these teams invested more (even by own money) to come to the start line compared to the fully payed Pro Sailors where every single job is financed from sponsor's pocket.

Little bit boring it becamse that we have lost two Maxi Trimarans... so another aspect might be interesting. How can the Multi50 can compete against he IMOCAs ?? But meanwhile we see so many IMOCAs gone not finishing the race.

Seeing all the trash going.... the whole event becomes very boring - from multihull enthusiast's perspective.

Early this morning EST time came in another bad news.... "Spirit of Hungary" is dismasted... officially confirmed on the website confirmed 2:53 EST
SOH60′ TJV2015 HÍRFOLYAM 2015 október 27-nov. 01.: ÁRBOCTÖRÉST SZENVEDETT A SPIRIT OF HUNGARY IMOCA 60’ – megfogyatkozott a mezÅ‘ny, több hajó megsérült – SOH hajónapló – fotók – audio | Spirit of Hungary

Sad to read: 'My whole life was changed in only one hour' Nando Fa | Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 : Le Havre - Itajai | October 2015 | Take to the seas and act for the planet
It is not just about a boat and its crew which has to stop racing. As we get aware by this notice, it can turn a whole life into a diseaster... as most skippers dont have the ressources and infrastructure to jump onto the next boat, e.g. as Gitana Team or Spindrift has a fleet of racing boats available.

IMOCA Kito has abandoned too...
http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com...?itok=t1FxSs3N

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Old 01-11-2015, 10:47   #22
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
There is a fantastic race between the three first open 60's. These three stormed through the storm LOL and left way behind all 50 ft trimarans that even if faster with good conditions were unable to follow them.... and a lot of interesting fights on the other racing classes (all top racing boats).
yes... kind of. It looked like the three Multi50s stuck four days ago (see screenshot of 28th Oct). It really looked disappointing (from perspective of a trimaran enthusiast)

I still have not understood in details what was going in that phase. I suppose the Multi50 had a kind of "local weather phenomenon" to slow down so heavily.
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:00   #23
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Has HB lost the stick in the roll over or before?

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Old 01-11-2015, 11:31   #24
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Has HB lost the stick in the roll over or before?
b.
yeah... I asked that myself too... its not clear. The PR work of Team "boss wreck" didnt communicate it clearly to the public so it looks for me.
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:36   #25
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

The race has been ans it is super interesting: The leading IMOCA (Open60) is one with the new foils, the only one that survived?, the second is a 2th generation boat and quite incredibly the third is a 3rd generation boat, a 2007 boat that in what regards top racing at this level is already an old one.

Great sailing by the three crews. I am really surprised by the fantastic performance of the 3th boat on that leading trio, skippered by two great sailors one from the old generation and one from the new: Yann Ellies and Charlie Dalin. I am very curious to see what will happen on the "pot au noir" where probably the older boats will have a slight advantage.

Regarding the Maxi trimarans three points to consider, the great sailing and big fight between Sodebo and Banque Populaire, the wonder kid from the Open 60's (Gabart) showing that he can learn rapidly the ropes of a maxi multihull and the huge breaking among those boats with half the fleet retiring.

On the Multi 50 I was not surprising at all with them being clearly beaten by the best Open60 on bad weather conditions. It had happened many times before and it has expected but I am surprised with having only 1/4 of retirement among those boats. They are very fast (faster then the Open60) downwind on good sailing conditions but very tricky to sail in nasty weather. Those sailors have made a fantastic work in keeping the boats in one piece and the right side up. Cheers to them!

Regarding those I have few doubts that the best sailor, if nothing out of the abnormal happens, would win this race. The surprise comes from the co-skipper of Le Roux, the Italian Giancarlo Pedote a champion on the solo miniracing series that passes almost directly to the big offshore multihull short crew series and to the leading boat among the Multi50. Cheers to him!

On the 40 class, as usual a great fight among the first, namely the 3 first and a special interest regarding the boat designers. Many of these boats are production boats and again the new Pogo S3 is not among the first. The 1st is a beautiful 2014 Verdier Design (BG), the second is sailed by the NA himself, Sam Manuard (abd by Sorel), the boat is a 2015 JPS and the 3rd is another Sam Manuard design, a 2014 design and quite incredibly from a New Zealand brand (Kiwi 40).

Without taking nothing to the great performance of the leaders, Bestaven and Brasseur, a double cheer to Manuard not only to be sailing his own designed boat and be on the 2nd position but also to have 2 of his designs among the first 3.

Bestaven and Brasseur showing why they are leading. Quite incredible the speed on those conditions with a 40ft boat...with a boat on autopilot;

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3b...bre-2015_sport

Transat Jacques Vabre
Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 : Le Havre - Itajai | October 2015 | Take to the seas and act for the planet
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Old 02-11-2015, 13:17   #26
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

It seems I was right and that on lighter winds the older generation of IMOCA boats (Open 60) are faster then the new ones with the new foils. PRB is all over Banque Popular, at only 4.5nm and it is very probable that Rio/Col will go out of the Doldrums ahead of Armel/Tabarly.

Super interesting and well deserving to be followed closely:

Transat Jacques Vabre

Meanwhile the Hugo Boss is being recovered and will be towed to the North of Spain.

There is one more problem with a Multi50 trimaran: Ciela Village stopped at Cabo Verde.

The Class 40, as usual, even being the smaller boats, are the ones with far less problems. Even with the several storms and only 3 boats out of 14 have given up with several problems but they all have made it on their own to a safe port.

On the leading class 40 boat one of them had to go to the top of the mast. Dam, it seems so easy for them!!!!

Jour 8 - Le Conservateur - Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 - - vidéo Dailymotion

and a nice video from Thibaut/Camus that are now in 3rd (class 40) very near from the 2nd:

Jour 8 - Solidaires En Peloton ARSEP- Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 - vidéo Dailymotion
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Old 03-11-2015, 09:55   #27
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Confirmed what I suspected; the leading Open 60's on new foils, on very light winds, is not a match to the older boats and not only Rio passed to the lead while Yann Elies overtook also Banque Populaire, that is now 3rd.

Let's see what is the advance they can have on the Doldrums and if that advance will be enough to stop the recuperation of Le Cleach on stronger winds along the Brasilian coast, where the new boat has advantage.

Meanwhile the first Multi 50, as I have previewed, is Le Roux that went away from the 2nd and that on calm seas and lighter winds is approaching the first group of Open 60's.

It looks that the big breakage on all types of multihulls is confirmed. The Ciella vilage is still making repairs in Cabo verde. If he gives up only 50% of the multihulls that started the race will be finishing it. They cannot stand heavy weather with the same ease as monohulls.

Regarding monohulls the problem in what regards heavy weather regards the new ones with the new foils. Only one has survived intact. The pressure on the foils led on many to structural problems. All those boats, that are yet on the experimental phase, will be deeply reviewed for the next race. Obviously the calculations regarding the forces transmitted by the foils to the structure were badly underestimated.

On the Maxi trimarans it seems that Gabart has finished its apprenticeship in what regards sailing big offshore multihulls and went away. What a sailor!!!!! With Cammas, probably the best one around in all disciplines.

On class 40 Bestaven went away and if nothing will happen to his boat will win the race but the fight for 2nd is as hot as it can be with 3 boats fighting for it.

A great race that you can follow here, almost direct:

Transat Jacques Vabre
| Transat Jacques Vabre 2015 : Le Havre - Itajai | October 2015 | Take to the seas and act for the planet
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Old 03-11-2015, 22:30   #28
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Good stuff, but I note that only 9 of 20 IMOCA monohulls are still racing--some were low budget, but 4 of the 5 new boats are out. Definitely underbuilt for a bit of sport in the North Atlantic, let alone RTW.
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Old 04-11-2015, 05:15   #29
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

30 knots on the log for Macif... cool. While Sodebo is slow pace behind only with 80% of Macif's speed around 24 knots... thats really bad shape.

Good, that Thierry is again back in the race... and only 520 nm behind the class leader.... not too bad for his stop over on Cape Verdes. Ciela Village pushes with 15 knots and hunting behind the two other Multi50s (Arkama and Fenetrea Prismian) which hang around like a slow snail in the doldrums with 4-6 knots... *knock on wood that all will arrive safely, the mult50 then would have the lowest quote of break downs*


Leading IMOCA PRB still has 2114 to go till finish line, just 160 nm front the leading Multi50: Fenetre Prysmian still has to go 2274. Would be great to see them coming closer to each other after leaving the Doldrums to see a nice finish. I suppose it will be in 6-7 days while Macif and Sodebo might end their race on Friday.
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Old 04-11-2015, 13:11   #30
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Re: 12th edition of Transat Jacques Vabre: 8 Tris (Multi50 & Maxis) started on Sunday

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
Good stuff, but I note that only 9 of 20 IMOCA monohulls are still racing--some were low budget, but 4 of the 5 new boats are out. Definitely underbuilt for a bit of sport in the North Atlantic, let alone RTW.
Yes but it is not a problem to be underbuilt for the North Atlantic since they are built to circumnavigate passing on the Austral high latitudes where the sea is worse and at the end of those circumnavigation races the breakage is not as high as have been here. Simply the new boats are yet on an experimental phase and obviously need to be beefed up due to the new foils. Regarding those you are right. All of them except one have abandoned.

There are no low budget IMOCA boats (meaning new boats built cheaply), just older generation boats.

Talking about the race, the doldrums with upwind sailing and weak winds increased not only the distance from the first Muli50 to the three leading Open60's as also diminished the distance to the two Open 60's that are behind. Even if that would not count for the race it will be interesting to follow the evolution and see if the first Multi 50 will be able to beat the first 60ft monohull.

But the race is great and specially in what regards the battle for first on the Open 60's and for second on the 40class.

Those are the ones that even being smaller than all the other monohulls and multi-hulls took better the stormy weather: From 14 boats only 3 abandoned the race and none of those needed outside assistance.
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