Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I beg to differ. These IKEA looking interiors for the most part are also IKEA quality, even in a $500K-1mil models. In each such boat I visited at a boat show I could observe the "quality" of the "woodwork". And I use the term woodwork very loosely as applicable to these boats, more likely "laminate work". Not to mention totally unseaworthy sharp angels all over, etc. But they are great entertainment platforms for many, no doubt about that.

PS may be EU builders as a joke send low quality samples to us 'mericans and back home you guys enjoy the real wood and better quality of joinery.

IKEA quality? Well, than I would say that you don't know what is quality besides basic wood work neither what is good design.

Some of the boats I posted cost several millions and all except the Dufour are very expensive boats for their size. I doubt you ever have seen any of them. The quality is on the level of Halberg Rassy or superior and have nothing to do with IKEA quality.

Today quality boat builders (or the clients) are not interested in wood interiors for the simple reason they are heavy, absorb moisture and heavy is something that should be avoided on a sailboat.

There is a huge difference regarding the composite materials that are used on those boats and on IKEA furniture but I take that you would not confound things intentionally, don't intend any bashing and talk just out of ignorance.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Old models = Rubenesque
New models = Esher

Old models - Sofia Lauren/Raquel Welch/Marilyn Monroe
New models - Lady Gaga.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Polux

IKEA quality? Well, than I would say that you don't know what is quality besides basic wood work neither what is good design.

Some of the boats I posted cost several millions and all except the Dufour are very expensive boats for their size. I doubt you ever have seen any of them. The quality is on the level of Halberg Rassy or superior and have nothing to do with IKEA quality.

Today quality boat builders (or the clients) are not interested in wood interiors for the simple reason they are heavy, absorb moisture and heavy is something that should be avoided on a sailboat.

There is a huge difference regarding the composite materials that are used on those boats and on IKEA furniture but I take that you would not confound things intentionally, don't intend any bashing and talk just out of ignorance.

I was talking about 40-50ft sized Euro models at US boat shows most with sticker prices between $300K and 1mil give or take. Was not talking about $2-3mil boats as 1. they are irrelevant to even most of 1% new boat buyers, 2. are probably semi-custom and 3. cannot be called "mass production average new boat buyer boats" anyway. So those which I observed, your larger sized Beneteaus, Jenneaus, Hanses, Bavarias, etc. (typical boats purchased today by a relatively well to do individuals or charter fleets) have mostly exhibited laminate surfaces which even on a new showroom boat were showing signs of de-lamination. I bet you that not even 10 years from now they will look like formica surfaces on 1970s mass production boats look today - cutting edge 40-45 years ago and cheap crap today. As opposed to natural wood which even 50 years later still looks like natural wood.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by hoppy

So true

Give me the one with less curves any day

Sadly.. it should read Europe - USA/UK

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

..

So we're told often, especially by politicians who want us to support the EU. But I don't know anyone, here in the Netherlands or friends in other European countries, that actually feels European or even knows what exactly that means ...
On edit: my mother says she feels European, although she herself doesn't quite know what she means by that. But she likes not having to use foreign currencies so much anymore.

You feeling 'American' is like me feeling Dutch, not European

You are probably old and have old friends. I don't know many Dutch but I certainly know some surfer kids from the local community that consider themselves as Europeans (beside Dutch) as I know many Europeans that consider them Europeans beside consider them citizens of a particular European country.

I believe that only in what regards old people that is not a common reality, or at least among the ones that have an old soul

It seems to me that your vision of nationalism is more politically minded than based in facts (not an adept of a federal Europe). About an European identity I have already posted a global view on the subject by a British scholar and British are among the European the ones that feel less European, kind of an insular perspective. Read it, it is interesting.

[four winds]

I notice the Winner 40 has many conspicuous handholds.

I think the young woman is quite lovely.

My own boat choice was guided by budget, intended use, and my eye on aesthetics. No desire for a full keel or all teak interior.

I feel certain if this forum had existed in 1978 then my boat would have received much criticism. It has a fibreglass inner hull and structure for the furniture. The bulkheads do not even extend to the hull in the bilge. If you peek under one can see open space from front to back.

Yet it never creaks or moans at any time and has sailed from Nova Scotia to Trinnidad.

By 70's standards it was quite contemporary. And has turned out to be the right boat for me.

I enjoy daydreaming about choosing a new boat on a weathly person's budget, to pass some time. No doubt it would be one of the modern designs much vilified here by many. Tough part would be keeping the choice under 40'.

Pics are sister ships.

Now to try and build one good alternator from two broken ones, before the batteries get to low to surf the forum.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Sadly.. it should read Europe - USA/UK

I guess that's why you live in Portugal

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Sadly.. it should read Europe - USA/UK

No, IKEA girls versus girls "with curves"

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by Polux

No, IKEA girls versus girls "with curves"

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I was talking about 40-50ft sized Euro models at US boat shows most with sticker prices between $300K and 1mil give or take. Was not talking about $2-3mil boats as 1. they are irrelevant to even most of 1% new boat buyers, 2. are probably semi-custom and 3. cannot be called "mass production average new boat buyer boats" anyway. So those which I observed, your larger sized Beneteaus, Jenneaus, Hanses, Bavarias, etc. (typical boats purchased today by a relatively well to do individuals or charter fleets) have mostly exhibited laminate surfaces which even on a new showroom boat were showing signs of de-lamination. I bet you that not even 10 years from now they will look like formica surfaces on 1970s mass production boats look today - cutting edge 40-45 years ago and cheap crap today. As opposed to natural wood which even 50 years later still looks like natural wood.

No you were talking about the photos I posted and those photos were from very expensive boats. this post..

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I beg to differ. These IKEA looking interiors for the most part are also IKEA quality, even in a $500K-1mil models. In each such boat I visited at a boat show I could observe the "quality" of the "woodwork". And I use the term woodwork very loosely as applicable to these boats, more likely "laminate work". Not to mention totally unseaworthy sharp angels all over, etc. But they are great entertainment platforms for many, no doubt about that. ....
.

...was made after I posted this picture..

of a very expensive European boat and was about this and the other photos that you insisted in talking about IKEA interiors.

One of two things, or you don't know of what you are talking about or you call IKEA to all contemporary styled sailboat interiors. That is bashing since IKEA means low quality and there is nothing about low quality on the above boat, on the C Yachts, on the Winner or on the Contest (interiors that I posted).

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I guess that's why you live in Portugal

Yer darn tootin Hoppy.. I like a wiggle not a 'Wobble'

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Polux

No you were talking about the photos I posted and those photos were from very expensive boats. this post..



...was made after I posted this picture..

OK, so you're posting photos of boats which have no connection to the reality of 99.999% of the boaters either here on CF or in general. As in comparing a Mars destined spacecraft with a privately owned Piper or even a Gulfstream. Yes, I'll admit that in $2-3-5-20+mil range the boats look like they are tricked out Italian design fancy shmancy houses. So what? They still have vast spaces lacking strategically placed handholds and thus are not conducive to any sort of use other than motoring from one marina to another and even then under a hired skipper and crew. For any other use they would need a whole lot of modifications and add-ons.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yer darn tootin Hoppy.. I like a wiggle not a 'Wobble'

British taste regarding Portuguese women
If you want to post an IKEA Portuguese beauty at least post one that the Portuguese like, Sara, for instance:

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

They still have vast spaces lacking strategically placed handholds and thus are not conducive to any sort of use other than motoring from one marina to another and even then under a hired skipper and crew.

Just get two of them and tie them together so they won't toss you around so much without these handholds.
Oh wait... I just invented the catamaran...

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

OK, so you're posting photos of boats which have no connection to the reality of 99.999% of the boaters either here on CF or in general. ....

Yes the reality about boats here on the CF is a bit out of the reality. The boats I posted are well known European brands and we were talking about European boats. Being them on the American market depends of what are the boats Americans. If there was a significant market I am quite sure they all would be interested in exporting their boats.

They are on the European market because Europeans buy them. I was talking about modern interiors and I have showed some. There are not a difference in style or design quality between those interiors and the ones of the mass production boats even if obviously it is expected the quality not to be the same.

Anyway even the interiors of Jeanneau, Dufour or Bavaria are far away from IKEA quality. I wonder, do you have ever saw IKEA furniture?