Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And some off us are happy to live on anything that floats.. as long its seaworthy and habitable (dry and clean).. don't really care what anyone else thinks about it..
The journey is what matters

I suppose you'll also say that you are also happy to just drink anywhere that the beer is cold? or perhaps is it room temperature you prefer?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I suppose you'll also say that you are also happy to just drink anywhere that the beer is cold? or perhaps is it room temperature you prefer?

Beach Bar or Mountain top and anywhere in between as long as the beers not to cold..
plays havoc with my throat..


edit.. must also have a decent view of some kind being a 'fringe' person

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Polux.. for me a travel iron is an essential on 'my' boats.. cannot stand the 'cruiser crumple' look.. guess that's down to being ex Royal Navy.

You keep surprising me

Most of the time on the boat I have only the swim shorts on. Even at night just a different type of shorts and a t shirt, if i am going to be out of the boat.

Sure I have also some pants and some shirts but I wear them one or two times in a season. But you live on a boat every time and I go back to the house for the winter so that's a big difference even if more and more, most of the cloths I wear on the boat stay on the boat.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

You keep surprising me

Most of the time on the boat I have only the swim shorts on. Even at night just a different type of shorts and a t shirt, if i am going to be out of the boat.

Sure I have also some pants and some shirts but I wear them one or two times in a season. But you live on a boat every time and I go back to the house for the winter so that's a big difference even if more and more, most of the cloths I wear on the boat stay on the boat.

I've relaxed a bit recently and will mooch about in marina's and beaches 'less formally but I remember my first time in SMX boat hunting.. everyone was highly amused because I only wore hiking boots, trousers, long sleeved shirt and hat.. its what got me nicknamed 'Indiana Jones' by Lal and his customers by Julianna Airport and my native friends in Phillipsburg..
In Antigua I was Croc Dundee..
Same dress code.. just cultural differences at play

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Yes, but with only a few exceptions, the sailboats here have either already been cruising or are about to leave. Mostly the well known Rondje Atlantic, but still.

Dutch women (and men) are probably too practical for all them crazy things

Listen to you we would say that Dutch yachts would have very simple interiors, kind of spartan, like the ones of some French practical boats like the Pogo or RM but it is not the case. Look at the interior of a modern Dutch 42ft, a Contest:

Or bigger Contests:

Or a 41ft Cyacht (very good for that size):

Or the one of a Winner 40ft, a performance cruiser:


For what I know Dutch sailboat interiors that are offered to the ones that can buy new boats, the interiors they desire and want, are pretty much similar to the Italian or French ones in design and I don't see any difference related to that Dutch practicability or spartan way of life and I will bet with that the ones that will use these boats will have an hair drier and probably an Iron on the boat.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by rabbi

We have a hairdryer on board, but don't own an iron, not even at home. So whats the point?

hoppy nails it but the interior shown isn't a particular bad example, I have seen much worse when visiting cruising neighbours.

But obviously many prefer to live in a heeling basement pub.

You mean a cave pub. By the interiors shown above you can see that one of the main objective of modern interior monohull design is taking away that basement look.

For that it is needed plenty light, clear furniture and port hulls with a view helps a lot and it is why they are used on modern boats but the interior is not the only important living space, on most sailboats, that are used on the "right" season on warm cruising grounds the cockpit is has important since most "live" there most of the time.

Regarding that the evolution of cockpit living space is clear. We can see that, also and taking as example the two boats that I have took as example regarding interiors, a Tayana 42 and a smaller Dufour 412:








It is obvious where the differences are in what regards living space that is hugely bigger on the smaller boat.

Even a Dufour 31 has more living cockpit space than a Tayana 42:

[Island Time O25]

Thank g-d for the lately popular IKEA interior and exterior trends. This allows us, poor shmucks, to pick up a great quality older boat with unpopular "English library" interior for next to nothing.

Reminds me of a funny moment I had once during my vacation. I'm sitting with a friend in an outdoor cafe in one of those Caribbean islands while our missuses are shopping nearby. When I notice a really, really (I mean really) gorgeous young lady walking across the street nearby. I turn to my buddy and say "Look at her, she looks like your your first wife did 20 years ago". He glances at her and cringing replies: "Hate that type now".

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Thank g-d for the lately popular IKEA interior and exterior trends. This allows us, poor shmucks, to pick up a great quality older boat with unpopular "English library" interior for next to nothing. ...

You should not use the word IKEA that is used in a bashing way regarding contemporary styled furniture. IKEA refers to IKEA products that are low quality ones. Nothing about low quality regarding the interiors that I posted that are from very expensive high quality boats.

If you don't like them and prefer old style furniture you are one your right but bashing them calling low quality products makes no sense. They are just contemporary, very well designed and built.

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Polux

cave pub

For a second there, I considered renaming my boat

But let's not forget ... not everybody picks the boot they necessarily like the most, interior / looks wise.

Budget, intended use etc. also plays a large part, which brings us to the inevitable trade-offs we all have to make.

I love my sturdy little boat, and she's a pretty fast and forgiving sailor. Since my budget was (and is) extremely limited, I looked for the best boat I could buy, for my intended use, within my budget.

If I'd had more money, I'd probably have a Wauquiez now. Hood 38 or Centurion 36. Again, not based on looks. Or maybe something else completely ... I never look too hard at boats I can't afford, not good for the soul

And when I grow tired of the North Sea (and beyond) and want to sail the Dutch waters again, Lizzy will have to go ... Keel stepped mast means standing mast route only, and her draft is too deep for too many places I'd like to go. Even in my first marina, I could only use the slips near the lake the marina was on - closer to land I got stuck in the mud. Couldn't even reach the diesel station ... Trust me, I tried
When I left that marina to move to Rotterdam, I barely made it out cos there's an underwater "threshold" where the lake meets the river, and I had some fun wiggling my way out of there

[Hudson Force]

I was thinking about the reasons why many of us in the USA think of Europe as a single entity while those among the various nations in Europe do not. I think much of this comes from those of us in the US having a heritage that spans much of Europe. I can visit homelands of my ancestors in at least seven different European nations. Even my own first, middle, and last names are surnames from three different European origins.

Once, years ago, Nancie and I were sitting at a bar in Florence and the owner was telling us of his pride in having all the historic beauty and accomplishments of the Italian renaissance as his heritage. He seemed surprised that I felt the same pride in claiming the same heritage.

Many of us "Yankees" tie Europe together because we are woven from many European threads.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Polux

You should not use the word IKEA that is used in a bashing way regarding contemporary styled furniture. IKEA refers to IKEA products that are low quality ones. Nothing about low quality regarding the interiors that I posted that are from very expensive high quality boats.

If you don't like them and prefer old style furniture you are one your right but bashing them calling low quality products makes no sense. They are just contemporary, very well designed and built.

I beg to differ. These IKEA looking interiors for the most part are also IKEA quality, even in a $500K-1mil models. In each such boat I visited at a boat show I could observe the "quality" of the "woodwork". And I use the term woodwork very loosely as applicable to these boats, more likely "laminate work". Not to mention totally unseaworthy sharp angels all over, etc. But they are great entertainment platforms for many, no doubt about that.

PS may be EU builders as a joke send low quality samples to us 'mericans and back home you guys enjoy the real wood and better quality of joinery.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

I was thinking about the reasons why many of us in the USA think of Europe as a single entity while those among the various nations in Europe do not. I think much of this comes from those of us in the US having a heritage that spans much of Europe. I can visit homelands of my ancestors in at least seven different European nations. Even my own first, middle, and last names are surnames from three different European origins.

Once, years ago, Nancie and I were sitting at a bar in Florence and the owner was telling us of his pride in having all the historic beauty and accomplishments of the Italian renaissance as his heritage. He seemed surprised that I felt the same pride in claiming the same heritage.

Many of us "Yankees" tie Europe together because we are woven from many European threads.

That's something that tickles me.. made some mates during my time in Oriental.. there was 'Irish Pete', 'Italian Ann' and 'Jimmy the Jock'.. all 3rd+ generation.. reluctant to surrender their ancestors roots..
The English have it much easier.. everyone calls us bastards..

[zeehag]

personally, i prefer a boat with character and sweet lines.
modern euro boats and the production boats spawned by the sleek no curves lines is not pretty to me.
that is why gods made formosas. for the sweet sea kindly lines. sexy and sweet and sea kindly.
yes and turd slow. i like that. does realllly well in huge winds, as opposed to those sterile lineless speedsters with easy access transoms for thieves to climb aboard in darkness......

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

Many of us "Yankees" tie Europe together because we are woven from many European threads.

That makes sense, I hadn't thought of that ...

But when I travel within Europe, it's mostly the Med. Why? Because the weather is nicer, the food a whole lot better (and very different from ours) and the people are so different -- seem more carefree, they live outside a lot of the time (sunny!) while we spend most of our time at home, behind the tv

I'm generalizing here of course, but when I visit friends in Spain, for instance, I'll be sitting at a dinner table before I know it. In the Netherlands, you call first. And you don't just stay for dinner - usually, people expect you to 'take the hint' when they announce dinner time.

We always joke about the Spanish "mañana" culture - much like 'island time' - which is very different to what the Dutch are used to. The most similar country / culture I can think of is Germany.

Eastern Europe is a whole nother story (and there's always a political tension with the 'cheap labor' and 'Polish people stealing our jobs' and a lot of prejudices like 'they're always drunk' and 'they're lawless people') while Northern Europe is a lot more like Western Europe -- tho I love the piece and quiet and nature one finds in, for instance, Norway.

Culturally, those countries differ a lot from ours, and friends who immigrated took a relatively long time to settle in. Generally speaking, people in Northern Europe seem happier, with less political unrest then here, and a more friendly "social safety net". And these countries have actual land, space and nature, it's not just crowded roads and buildings

Meh, sorry, my English falls short here to better express what I'm trying to say

[Sandero]

Design has both an aesthetic component and a structural, functional one. This is very much in part of boat design.

Ikea attempts to make modernist design affordable. But there are plenty of very expensive simple, sleek modern Italian interiors, for example that are very spendy. In general many people are moving away from ornament and traditional design. They warm up modernist interiors with fabrics, furniture, art, carpets. People have moved away from the love of "Victorian Clutter" (read here: Victorian Furniture of the Middle Class :: Victorian Era)

Sailboats need to have a very strong FUNCTION component to design....after all they are meant for LIVING IN and ON... and they tip (heel) when underway and living goes on regardless. Wide open spaces are not seaworthy. They lack handholds required because people can't walk very well in a pitching boat heeled 15°. Good naval architects understand the need to balance aesthetics and function with FUNCTION sacrosanct... it comes first.

The nostalgia for heavy dark looking wood etc. will remain with some, but many have moved on embracing the new which are as or more functional and simply a different aesthetic. It's fun to have and drive a vintage car... but they are not as safe or perform as well as a modern one. Same for an airplane.... and why not for a boat?

Design has been evolving... slowly or maybe fast. Shiva, a DIck Zaal designed Contest 36s does not resemble a traditional boat aside from the extensive use of teak in the interior and some of the basic accommodation features. It has lots of headroom, a huge, dry and secure cockpit for a boat its size, a reasonably modern rig and hull form. It lacks a coach roof and is basically a flush deck. It does not look like the more severe designs of recent years at all, but it doesn't look like those of the 40s - 70s. It's a comfy boat and a good sailer and does 150nm offshore. I see no reason to "upgrade" when what I have ain't broken.

If I were looking for a new boat I would not be averse to the modern designs... the sensible ones... in my opinion. But architects tend to be forward looking with respect to design.