Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

[Ribbit]

By the way, and this may be of interest to Americans, King George got a bum rap for being the cause of the War of Independence. It isn't true.

What led to it was the extremely poor implementation of the 1707 Act of Union, which allowed Jacobites into the Democracy House (the House of Commons), and by 1750 they had taken it over. It took them almost 200 years and the Constitutionally illegal Parliament Act of 1911 to take over the House of Lords, which until that point, had acted as a serious check on their ambitions.

William Pitt the Elder's rant against what was going on in our Parliament, at the time:

"Instead of the arbitrary power of a King, must we submit to the arbitrary power of the House of Commons? If this be true, what benefit do we derive from the exchange? Tyranny my Lords is detestable in every shape, but none so formidable as where it is assumed and exercised by a number of tyrants.

But my Lords this is not the fact, this is not the Constitution, we have a Law of Parliament. We have a Statute Book and the Bill of Rights."

President John Quincy Adams named the person most responsible for the War of Independence, as William Murray, and the damage he did on the sly to our Laws and Constitution, changing the wording, and influencing inaccuracies into Sir William Blackstone's standard reference work "Commentaries on the Laws of England" (faults spotted by the Founding Fathers, so they could see the writing on the wall) to suit the agenda of the tyrants, damage done while he was Attorney General and Lord Chief Justice.

King George served well as a scapegoat for their crimes.

[Ribbit]

To prevent any possible cultural naming confusion for things that float, I won't use yacht or boat as descriptors from now on.

I'll use "My little beauty" instead.

Should cover just about everything I suppose.

[Liam Wald]

Another thread devolved into politics...
Meh.

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

Another thread devolved into politics...
Meh.

Yep..... This it's time to unsubscribe.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

....
The point is, none of the definitions shows in boat design..
b.

Yes I agree, some European brands use American or American based boat designers like Farr or Reichel& Pugh among others, so I would say contemporary boat design is Universal as the developments in boat hydrodynamics and in building techniques and materials. Most comes from the top ocean racing field that even if Universal is also mainly an European one.

It is clear that the new cruising boats that sell today in incomparably bigger numbers in America are European brands designed by European NAs. But it seems also clear that there are some differences in taste if we look at the boats that are offered.

The first big one is the almost total absence of any significant number of performance cruisers on the American market while they tend to increase on the European one, to a point where brands like Halberg Rassy, Sunbeam, CC or Oyster, that used to built medium heavy boats, are today building boats that some years ago would have been called performance cruisers.

The second is the absence in the American market of modern voyage boats, fast ones adapted to solo sailing, like RM, Pogo or the JPK 38, or the more strong and slow aluminum ones like Allures, Garcia or Boreal or the modern glass ones like Amel, Discovery or Gunfleet.

The third one is the persistence in America of older designs that would be long gone in Europe ( being substituted by newer designs) like Passport, IP or Outbound. In fact you cannot name any brand of voyage or luxury boats in Europe that has models designed more then 10 years ago (boat design evolved a lot on the last 10 years, not to mention on the last 15 or 20).

All this put together I would say that there is not a difference in design but a difference regarding the time Americans take to accept improvements that Europeans have accepted earlier. That time has becomes shorter on the last years and will certainly become even shorter on the future.

There is another difference and that is the much bigger percentage of Europeans that like sailing and cruising. That makes for a much bigger market and different sailors and cruisers with more varied tastes and that makes possible a much more varied offer and a faster design evolution.

Also the number of Americans that cruise and sail are decreasing while on Europe that number is constant and that means a lot more older sailors on the US and much more kids sailing on Europe and that also explains the bigger conservatism of the American market.

If you look to the last boat of the more iconic American brand, Hinckley, you will see a boat that could be a boat made by an European brand:

The difference is that Hinckley is a lonely case and I think only one boat was built and I am pretty sure that boat will be more used for racing than for cruising while in Europe you have many brands producing similar boats, they are more used for cruising than racing and not all of them are very expensive like Hinckley. Well, pretty sure that none of them is so expensive as Hinckley

[s/v Jedi]

It touches politics but it's still about culture mostly...

About the terms, a pleasure craft with sails and belowdecks accomodation, even a 20 footer, is a yacht or, if you wish, a sail yacht. If it has an engine, it should be the secondary power option, with the sails being first. It's master isn't normally called captain, which is an officers rank, but skipper.

With the industrial revolution we got yachts that use an engine as primary propulsion. These are called motoryachts. Then we got billionairs buying real big ones and we call them megayachts.

The master can be a captain if he/she has a captains license. Most megayachts have captains.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by hoppy

The American girl in the video clearly gives your Brit girls a run for their money.

Damn... gonna have to watch the video's instead of just commenting on the title.. thought she was English..
But its seems I understand fluent American.. gonna follow her on YouTube.. she's hilarious..

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by Polux

Go with your wife to a boat show that has the same model (till 42ft) with two different galleys and she will tell you why. The straight galley has much more space in a much more functional way and as most boats, even offshore ones, use the galley more times at anchor or at a marina then while sailing upwind that explains why many modern boats (till 43ft) have have a straight one.

After 43/45ft most boats have the interior space needed not to have to maximize galley space that way.

A straight one can have a long bar along it or you can mount a dynema line from side to side and the one that is cooking can clip itself to it, if on the wrong tack and upwind. Also many modern cruisers sail with much less heel than older boats.

I am not saying that I prefer it (even if my wife does) just explaining it why it is the more used now.

This is a modern Contest 42CS, certainly a bluewater boat:


This is a Allures 45, a Voyage boat:

A mass production maim market boat, the Dufour 412:

The Oceanis 38:

My goodness, those are ugly boat interiors. In my opinion.


S/V B'Shert

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

I think the difference between calling your boat a boat, or calling it a yacht depends on your own personality and cultural background.
I happen to be quite near Newport, RI, home and visiting place to many superyachts, both sail and power, also home to the New York Yacht Club.
Most people I know refer to their craft as boats, no matter what size, I guess it's that American deep seated distrust of upper class snobbery and early puritan bent toward modesty. I've also found that the Old Money Yachties tend to call their multi million dollar toys their boat and downplay it's size and luxury status. New money types tend to refer to them as "their yacht", no matter what size it is, I'm sure you can imagine the condescending tone used.
Culturally, it may have a different connotation here in the states than it does in Europe and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with size.
HEY! I just got out of the pool, don't judge me!

I refer to Shiva as my boat...

[four winds]

The Dufour has bananas on board. Clearly not a traditional interior.

[Liam Wald]

And as we all know...
"A lovely bunch of ripe Banana, hides the deadly Black Tarantula... Day-o"

[Lizzy Belle]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

My goodness, those are ugly boat interiors. In my opinion.

Yeah, they made my happy go away

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

My goodness, those are ugly boat interiors. In my opinion.
S/V B'Shert

As it would be expected. Since you own an old boat it is natural that you like old style interiors otherwise you would be looking for a new modern looking boat.

However this are the interiors favored by most and that's why new boats have them. I have to say that the one from the Contest, even if of high quality could be better designed but the other two are very good, I mean aesthetically speaking, tastes apart.

There are tastes for everything even if the ones that would prefer to live on the interior of a Tayana 42...

than on the interior of a smaller Dufour 412 (but with a bigger interior) would not be many, except on this forum... maybe:

and the ones that would like the Dufour interior would not like the Tayana one and vice versa.

Even so, as if had been said, in America you would find more that would prefere the Tayana interior but I believe that also there the vast majority that buy new boats would prefer the more luminous, modern, lighter and bigger Dufour interior and that's why even on the European Brands that have factories in America the interiors are the same as the ones in Europe.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

As it would be expected. Since you own an old boat it is natural that you like old style interiors otherwise you would be looking for a new modern looking boat.

However this are the interiors favored by most and that's why new boats have them. I have to say that the one from the Contest, even if of high quality could be better designed but the other two are very good, I mean aesthetically speaking, tastes apart.

There are tastes for everything even if the ones that would prefer to live on the interior of a Tayana 42...

than on the interior of a smaller Dufour 412 (but with a bigger interior) would not be many, except on this forum... maybe:

and the ones that would like the Dufour interior would not like the Tayana one and vice versa.

Even so, as if had been said, in America you would find more that would prefere the Tayana interior but I believe that also there the vast majority that buy new boats would prefer the more luminous, modern, lighter and bigger Dufour interior and that's why even on the European Brands that have factories in America the interiors are the same as the ones in Europe.

This is down to a very smart designer 'Getting It' that if a guy wants a boat the interior had better be 'Wife Approvable'.. else forget it..
Lets face it.. all the guys are interested in is topside.. below.??
Dry and a comfortable bunk is enough.. its called marketing to the power base..

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

This is down to a very smart designer 'Getting It' that if a guy wants a boat the interior had better be 'Wife Approvable'.. else forget it..
Lets face it.. all the guys are interested in is topside.. below.??
Dry and a comfortable bunk is enough.. its called marketing to the power base..

Your dam right about that. When I was choosing a boat my wife was nice enough to let me chose but with a veto power over the interior that she used to exclude some boats.

I was lucky because some wives just chose the boat by the interior and that's it. After all they are all sailing boats aren't they?