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Old 04-03-2016, 13:08   #301
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
Dutch design (she said not without pride)

Very seaworthy; if you're cruising around you'll probably come across one or two, methinks.
Friends of mine are currently somewhere out there on their Breehorn 37.
Well the old ones were, designed by Koopmans, an old school Dutch NA (father and son) but the new ones are only half Dutch since they are designed by Simonis & Voogd (one is Dutch the other is South African) but contrary to Koopmans that designed only to to Dutch brands Simonis & Voogdis is an international NA firm and the Brehorn is a very conservative design regarding what they use to design, but work is work and they will design what the client wants.

The Breehorn 48 (more modern than the 44):



Some of their designs:






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Old 04-03-2016, 14:04   #302
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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That's just it: most aren't. They're designed for day sailing and weekends plus the occasional vacation, as that is how the majority uses their boats. At least, as far as I can tell

When you look at all the sailboat owners, only a small percentage goes out on less then the best days for a nice, comfy sail, and even less people live on their boats full time, and/or feel the need to cross oceans with them.

They aren't so much designed for living on, as much as spending a limited amount of time at a time on - and usually either in a marina or sailing when it's nice out.

Methinks anyway

(My view could be distorted tho. When I visit a boat show and want to talk to the builders present, they either ignore me cos there's no sign of my husband (doh!) or they show me the galley and such. True story!)
I have to agree here, most of the designs I see are meant for the pleasure boat market, mostly day/weekend use with an occasional multi-day cruise once a year thrown in. The design criteria for the major part of the market is aimed there, it makes economic sense.
Full time liveaboard use is a very small sector of the market, so the needs and tastes of those in that group are quite different than the average boat show spectator. Whether you like more modern or more traditional interiors for style, the interior has to be liveable at anchor and safe at sea. Many of the modern interiors I see are tilted toward dock or entertaining use, which is the majority of the market, it makes sense for the production builders no matter which side of the pond their on, as you can see, it's very difficult for a manufacturer to make strictly cruising boats from a financial perspective.
The interior layout of our current boat is not as spacious as a similar sized boat in a more "pleasure cruiser" oriented boat, but makes sense as a family home for the majority of the use it's aimed at, at those times when we do entertain we can make do, same goes for our cockpit, it's more conservative than many I've seen but is large enough to entertain a small group when those times arise. When were in the buying process my wife was not totally impressed, it wasn't like many of the boat show models we had seen, then, we really sat down and thought about it. What is it going to used for the majority of the time? Ourselves and our two boys, with guests from time to time and the occasional entertaining opportunity when it arises. Then the layout made much more sense, it was geared toward living space, not entertaining space, and much more seaworthy because of it. Now that we've had it two years she hasn't seen another that fits our actual use better, the interior is big enough to feel comfortable in, allows some privacy for each of us when we need it, and is comfortable enough for guests when they're aboard, if a little "intimate".
It has a good mix of teak and white surfaces that it is warm enough without being a cave but not as bright as a dentist office. I don't find either extreme comfortable.
Why the big move toward modern interiors in production boats? Laminates are a buttload cheaper than teak paneling. Fortunately modern laminates have a much nicer appearance and texture than the early laminates used on cheaper production boats in the 70's and 80's. I'm still not a fan of sharp edges and corners in boat interiors, from a practical standpoint. Most larger builders tend to change slowly and tend to be conservative, how many fads have you seen come and go in the boating industry? Most people only remember the successful designs and forget the clunkers, also the clunkers tend to disappear long before the successful designs, but one bad product line can kill a manufacturer quickly. Anyone remember some of the more radical designs from the IOR era? Yeah, what seemed cool one day was deemed butt ugly and one dimensional soon after. You see them in the back rows of boat yards, abandoned and unloved.
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Old 04-03-2016, 14:07   #303
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

I find that photo of a yacht/boat with black countertops and black settee covers just the opposite of trying to get away from a cavelike interior, regardless of the "new" look down below.

Many years my boss hired his friend's girlfriend to do the interior desecrating of our new offices. She "chose" a shiny black countertop for the "galley" kitchen. It was by far the worst choice anyone could have made. Besides black making everything look much smaller, the shiny showed every single drip, drop and dirt speck.

While, of course, this is my own opinion, (which is all any of these posts are by definition when we're dealing with taste rather than technical specifics which result in options) I hate black, whether in a house or a boat. And I also recognize that the photo didn't show shiny black, but the washed out dull black is even less appealing to me than the basic whites which many of us are used to.

As far as the condo look, I don't mind "clean" but I sure detest no handholds, sharp edges and the lack of understanding of the basic elements of design proven over and over again.

When someone can come up with brand new dynamic analyses that show boats all of a sudden behave differently at sea than they have for eons, and how, for example, linear galleys work there on the larger boats we're seeing these days, I'm all ears.
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Old 04-03-2016, 14:56   #304
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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I guess that most would agree with you and that's why IP is in trouble.

But guys... white upholstery on a world cruiser?! And if you make it a different color, the brown bulkheads will feel like a prison! The IP is ugly in comparison, I agree, but the other one is not functional.
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Old 04-03-2016, 15:49   #305
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

I've had Shiva for over 30 years... Truth be told most of my time is not offshore sailing or passage making although we've done perhaps 25,000 ocean miles. Most of my boat time is fair weather sailing. But when we are caught will tough stuff... we do it... no biggie. I would never own a boat to do BBQs... and motor across the Sound to get a slip in some marina.
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Old 04-03-2016, 16:20   #306
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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But guys... white upholstery on a world cruiser?! And if you make it a different color, the brown bulkheads will feel like a prison! The IP is ugly in comparison, I agree, but the other one is not functional.
White is probably not practical for a weekend warrior either. But it looks good anyway.

The IP is stuck in a fashion no man's land.
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Old 04-03-2016, 16:21   #307
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

IKEA bench is still like siting at a picnic table it may be padded well but it is sill a picnic bench. I see most tables poorly designed and companion way stairs a disaster in a breeze.
PS quality wood work is just the magic of CNC water jet not a craftsman any more.


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Old 04-03-2016, 16:30   #308
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

White upholstery is great as long as you have really good fabric. We live aboard full time and have done so for years. We recovered the interior with a type of ultra leather called Brisas and it's designed for the marine environment but it's not cheap. It is easy to keep clean and adds a nice feel to the teak interior.
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Old 04-03-2016, 16:45   #309
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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White upholstery is great as long as you have really good fabric. We live aboard full time and have done so for years. We recovered the interior with a type of ultra leather called Brisas and it's designed for the marine environment but it's not cheap. It is easy to keep clean and adds a nice feel to the teak interior.

That is plastic and I still wonder how suntan oil looks like on it, or tomato sauce, red wine, rum&coke etc.
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Old 04-03-2016, 16:49   #310
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

Love Europe's many cultural attractions. They would probably feel better being "EU-united" if they had a common language. Thankfully for our travels, many speak English as a second language, especially in western and northern Europe.

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Old 04-03-2016, 16:51   #311
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That is plastic and I still wonder how suntan oil looks like on it, or tomato sauce, red wine, rum&coke etc.
And.. it sticks to ones skin in warm climes.. and causes zits on ones butt
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Old 04-03-2016, 17:03   #312
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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I find that photo of a yacht/boat with black countertops and black settee covers just the opposite of trying to get away from a cavelike interior, regardless of the "new" look down below.

...
Yes, I would say that the use of black is not a great idea on a boat interior unless it has plenty of light...but about what photo and boat are you talking about?
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Old 04-03-2016, 17:09   #313
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Love Europe's many cultural attractions. They would probably feel better being "EU-united" if they had a common language. Thankfully for our travels, many speak English as a second language, especially in western and northern Europe.

I find I can just about get by in your country with my basic grasp of Americanish..
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Old 04-03-2016, 17:14   #314
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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They would probably feel better being "EU-united" if they had a common language.
There is no reason for 50 or so countries to all have the same language

Tho given enough time, we'll probably all speak English -- or Americanish (if we don't run out of gravity first )

-

Luckily, sailing in the Netherlands gives you plenty of time to enjoy your surroundings:



(They all want to get into the lock at the same time ... Loads of fun!)
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Old 04-03-2016, 17:28   #315
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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But guys... white upholstery on a world cruiser?! And if you make it a different color, the brown bulkheads will feel like a prison! The IP is ugly in comparison, I agree, but the other one is not functional.
Not functional on account of the white upholstery? They have more 5 upholstery options and I don't think the white is aesthetically the better one: too big the contrast.

Probably the I would chose this one:

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