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Old 02-03-2016, 09:15   #136
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

They are clueless about yacht vs boat in the US but act like they invented the terms. Being Dutch, i.e. one of those who actually did invent the terms... have given up trying to explain long ago. They tend to be stuck with megayacht for anything having the word yacht. Hunter is another clueless example.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:18   #137
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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Originally Posted by secrabtree View Post
My eyes must be deceaving me! Somehow they tell my brain that they don't see all of those Catalinas and Hunters that I think I see in the various harbors and marinas I've seen in the United States. For instance, Catalinas are given sail numbers that are consecutive. There are various models of Catalina. And just the Catalina 22 sail numbers have reached over 10,000. And by far the vast majority of those Catalinas have been sold in the United States to citizens of the United States. Most European boat manufacturers can only dream of those numbers. I think we Americans do buy Catalinas and Hunters.

As far as we Americans not wanting to sail fin keeled boats - that's also an incorrect assumption.
I'm with you, secrabtree. In our marina in Middle River, MD (with the East Coast of the US notably having a much higher percentage of long keeled boats than the West coast) we are one of maybe 20-30 such designs in a 360 slip marina. Far and away the vast majority of boats in our marina are Hunters (the most), Beneteaus, Catalinas, O'Days, Jeanneaus, and many other more modern designs. That was even MORE true in southern California where a traditional full or long keeled boat was almost a rarity. I'm not agreeing with the premise of this thread at all.

My guess is that at one time there were some very popular builders of these types boats, and they were good builders, and because of that the boats have endured because of their level of quality. Our 34 year old Cape Dory is solid as a rock structurally. Of course there are systems to be upgraded and components to be replaced, and a lot of wear and tear that is strictly the result of owner neglect. But this boat was clearly built to last, and it has and will continue to. And maybe also because a lot of us older sailors "back in the day" were drawn to those boats because at that time there were a lot of them being built and that's what the sailors that we admired (Pardeys, Roths, Hiscocks, Paysons) were cruising the world on, and they embodied the dream for us. The boats have proven themselves to us over the years, and whether it is just sentimentality or a relationship of trust that has been built over years of experience, who knows and who cares. Maybe we would love a cat, maybe we would really love a big modern fin keeled cruiser. I don't know....but it doesn't matter because we are very happy with what we have and have no need to go looking for the bigger, better, newer, faster, deal. Our desires naturally tend toward K.I.S.S. and "enough is as good as a feast" for us. It's not all about money either, we are pouring plenty of money into this old girl. We don't see her as any great "bargain." As a matter of fact, for what we're spending we could have had something newer and larger and would have saved ourselves 3 seasons in the boatyard. We just love the boat and see her as something worth saving and preserving.

Bottom line, those older, well built, capable, full or long-keeled boats are still out there (thankfully), and on some level they still embody the dream for some of us old guys, and for a lot of young people they present an opportunity to get an offshore capable boat at a low price. Many of those youngsters couldn't afford to cruise any other way. But I see it as a niche market at this point because from what I observe both in the marina and at the boat show (which probably had as many cats as monos this year), the long keeled boat is a dying breed here and when these old ones are gone, they will be gone. Very few are being built at this point and most are custom. And that's why we are determined to keep at least one of them viable for cruising for as long as we can. But that's just us and in no way represents "the majority."
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:26   #138
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Wait a minute.. That means, that Hunters are Yachts with a Pedigree..
But of course.. If they are Cherubini's..
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:30   #139
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

I may be generalizing here a bit but here it goes.

IMO since many places in Europe suffered total destruction in the wake of two closely spaced World wars, they often had to start from scratch in many areas of life. This in turn conditioned them to experiment with, welcome and accept new and modern designs, which in turn acted as a psychological break with the painful past. Thus born Bahaus movement in architecture, streamlined Italian designs, utilitarian and simple interiors/exteriors, etc. Not to mention many decades of war induced poverty which did not help as far as sturdiness of the materials used, etc.

On the other hand North America, having been spared any physical destruction in both wars did not have nor felt the need to boldly go into an unfamiliar territory, the old customs and proven designs found to be working just fine. Why fix something that ain't broken? This difference in mentality is illustrated in such a simple item as an old fashioned toaster which had not changed for 50 or more years. It seems that in general North Americans are much more conservative not only in their politics but in all other matters as well.

It's not that Americans can't do a modern design but that they are slow to adopt to it. GM was churning out fiberglass Corvettes since the mid 50s but that technology has not caught up with the public and 60 years later we still prefer solid metal car bodies.
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:31   #140
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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Originally Posted by Sailor Doug View Post
Galleys are the real difference. Why one would have a straight outboard galley? You would loose a settee and party area. Are Europeans less social?
Interestingly that style of galley is called "Americain" in France...
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Old 02-03-2016, 09:58   #141
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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Interestingly that style of galley is called "Americain" in France...
We reciprocate by calling Belgian potatoes - French fries.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:07   #142
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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Interestingly that style of galley is called "Americain" in France...

How can you make drinks when the whole galley is way up hill in a breeze?


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Old 02-03-2016, 10:13   #143
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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Originally Posted by Sailor Doug View Post
Why one would have a straight outboard galley?
I have seen those a few times, but nearly all boats I've ever seen have a L or U shaped galley. Not sure what % of boats have a straight one, but it can't be that many?

What I also fail to understand is .. no idea what it's called, so a pic:



Like sitting in a train instead of a boat
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:17   #144
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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Originally Posted by oldragbaggers View Post
..As a matter of fact, for what we're spending we could have had something newer and larger and would have saved ourselves 3 seasons in the boatyard. We just love the boat and see her as something worth saving and preserving.

Bottom line, those older, well built, capable, full or long-keeled boats are still out there (thankfully), and on some level they still embody the dream for some of us old guys, and for a lot of young people they present an opportunity to get an offshore capable boat at a low price. Many of those youngsters couldn't afford to cruise any other way. But I see it as a niche market at this point because from what I observe both in the marina and at the boat show (which probably had as many cats as monos this year), the long keeled boat is a dying breed here and when these old ones are gone, they will be gone. Very few are being built at this point and most are custom. And that's why we are determined to keep at least one of them viable for cruising for as long as we can. But that's just us and in no way represents "the majority."
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:21   #145
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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Actually the word Yacht is a bastardisation of 'Jacht.. Dutch for Hunt.. as that's what their small fast navy ships did.. hunted down smugglers etc.
...
Maybe that's why Hunter are called that way = Yacht
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:24   #146
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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European design.... Rocks compared to Grandpa's 1980's American designs.
I hope that is is not too much of a shock to you, but not everyone thinks a boat should look like it was conceived on a Star Trek set...

No offense, but I wouldn't be caught dead on a boat that looked like that...and if I were I would come back and haunt the SOB that put me there for eternity!

No offense intended...just making a comment...no offense...not trolling...not to be taken as an insult...
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:35   #147
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We reciprocate by calling Belgian potatoes - French fries.
Awwww... don't you call them 'Freedom Fries' anymore..
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:45   #148
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

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Maybe that's why Hunter are called that way = Yacht

That is why they are clueless. The oiginal word is "jacht" which means "hunt", not "jager" which is "hunter". Utterly clueless name
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:52   #149
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

Personally, I think boat design is a reflection of culture as well as can be said of automobiles, aircraft, homes, clothing, etc.

And "outdated" is not really a valid term as some of the most beautiful tasteful objects are very old...

Perhaps technology can be considered outdated, but good taste is in the eye of the beholder, and we all have our "cultural" differences as to what is considered good taste.

And for the record, I do not care for the word "yacht"...it conjures images of elitist snobbery displaying their wealth for all to see.

Please bear in mind that this is simply my opinion...no need for anyone to be offended, or have their feelings hurt.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:53   #150
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Re: Yacht type choice - Cultural differences?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle View Post
I have seen those a few times, but nearly all boats I've ever seen have a L or U shaped galley. Not sure what % of boats have a straight one, but it can't be that many?

What I also fail to understand is .. no idea what it's called, so a pic:



Like sitting in a train instead of a boat
So much of what we see discussed here is often a case of different connotations of words and not a cultural difference.

By example, the photo shown above would not be called the galley in the US where the galley identifies where food is prepared and the location of the oven, range, refrigerator, freezer, sink and counter top. This dining area with the table would not be considered the galley.

Other terms that are often used quite differently in the US include yacht and captain. These differences are in the use of language and not necessarily in culture.
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