Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-06-2015, 07:46   #1
Registered User
 
Tscott8201's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Florida
Posts: 104
Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Simple question, with what I am guessing is a very complicated answer. Where is the line drawn between full fledged yacht and motor sailer? I find the line is pretty fuzzy, as a matter of fact, the more I ponder the question, I am not even sure what the definition of a motor sailer is.

Tom
__________________

__________________
Tscott8201 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 08:45   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: north wales uk
Boat: Ker 33 IRC
Posts: 70
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

i'm with you on this one.

most of the yacht brokers term something like a Fisher 34 as a motorsailer - so if we're gunna use those types of terms then i suppose its a trawler with a stick and rags on it.

but then again you could say that any sailing boat fitted with an auxillary motor is a capable motor sailor.

this ones is gunna run and run
__________________

__________________
ruby tuesday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 08:56   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,379
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Before even starting maybe we need to understand what you mean by yacht? Yacht could be pure power boat but I assume you are using yacht to mean sailboat?

There is no exact definition of where the line crosses between a sailboat with an engine and a motor sailor. Sometimes I have seen a motorsailor described by a ration like 80/20 or 60/40. The 80 meaning it derives 80% of it's power/speed/performance from sail, 20% from power.

So as commonly used in the business (yacht sales and brokerage) a boat that is so big, wide and tall that it cannot perform very well under sail AND has a larger than typical engine will cross the line from sailboat to motor sailor.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 11:48   #4
Registered User
 
Tscott8201's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Florida
Posts: 104
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Before even starting maybe we need to understand what you mean by yacht? Yacht could be pure power boat but I assume you are using yacht to mean sailboat?

There is no exact definition of where the line crosses between a sailboat with an engine and a motor sailor. Sometimes I have seen a motorsailor described by a ration like 80/20 or 60/40. The 80 meaning it derives 80% of it's power/speed/performance from sail, 20% from power.

So as commonly used in the business (yacht sales and brokerage) a boat that is so big, wide and tall that it cannot perform very well under sail AND has a larger than typical engine will cross the line from sailboat to motor sailor.
Yes, you are correct in assuming I mean a full fledged sailing yacht.

Tom
__________________
Tscott8201 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 11:55   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,379
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tscott8201 View Post
Yes, you are correct in assuming I mean a full fledged sailing yacht.

Tom
In the context that seemed to make sense.

So here's another way to put it, short and sweet.

Streamlined and sleek = sailboat
Fat and tubby = motor sailor
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 12:09   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Abaco, Bahamas/ Western NC
Boat: Nothing large at the moment
Posts: 820
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

A motor sailor is simply another form of yacht, as is a sailing yacht or a motor yacht. You can even have a submersible yacht!
__________________
Tingum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 12:27   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 596
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
In the context that seemed to make sense.

So here's another way to put it, short and sweet.

Streamlined and sleek = sailboat
Fat and tubby = motor sailor
By that definition, a multihull is a motor sailor.





Later,
Dan
__________________
dannc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 12:37   #8
Registered User
 
goat's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Everywhere (Sea of Cortez right now)
Boat: PSC Orion 27
Posts: 1,098
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Sail area to displacement is where I'd start.

Sent from my SM-G730W8 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
goat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 12:58   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,379
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannc View Post
By that definition, a multihull is a motor sailor.





Later,
Dan
Multihulls aren't fat, just wide. I'm not saying anything more on the subject. I'm married and (usually) know when to keep my mouth shut.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 14:04   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 38
Posts: 563
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

You could make a couple of different arguments about what constitutes a motor sailor, or you can combine them all into a single model.

If you took the following attributes and placed them on an N-dimensional graph, and then entered a number of boats that are clearly sailing yachts vs. clearly motor-sailors, you'd wind up with a model that you could use to plug in attributes and have the model tell you. It's this complicated because any one of these attributes can overlap, but their product will tell you whether a boat is a motor-sailor or not.

SA/D ratio (my guess? <15 = motor sailor)
Fuel tankage/LOA (my guess? > 1 gallon per LOA = motor sailor)
hp/D ratio (my guess? > 2hp / 1000lbs. D = motor sailor)
Lwl/Bwl ratio (my guess? <4 = motor sailor)

The more of these you hit, the more likely you are a motor sailor.
__________________
mstrebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 14:27   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
fjwiley1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Boat: Lindsey Center Cockpit 39' Ketch
Posts: 463
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Well I guess the brochure on my 1973 Ketch was correct....it is officially a Motor Sailer....


Life is Good if you Keppa Smilin.....
__________________
enjoy the winds for they are free

S/V Water Wings
fjwiley1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 18:25   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Niagara Falls
Boat: Westsail 32
Posts: 346
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tscott8201 View Post
Where is the line drawn between full fledged yacht and motor sailer? Tom
A motorsailer does neither one well.
__________________
Seymore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 18:41   #13
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 1,702
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

A motorsailer usually has an enclosed pilothouse regardless of the sail rig. It can be commercial as in albacore tuna boats.
__________________
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 19:13   #14
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,593
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

The line between will always be blurry. To the above comments I will add that long, shallow keels and large, multi-blade propellers will be more associated motor sailors.

Panope used to be a pure sailboat; complete with two masts, anemic engine, tiny prop, puny fuel tank and no inside steering.

Now she has one mast, a big engine (with big, draggy prop), big fuel tanks and a towering pilot house.

The boat ticks most of the "motor sailor" boxes now and does motor beautifully. The funny thing is, she also sails just as good (better in light air) now than before the changes.

I Don't know what to call it. How about a boat?

Steve

Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-06-2015, 19:24   #15
Registered User
 
bobnlesley's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Yorkshire/Back down in da islans Mon
Boat: Trident Challenger- 35 feet
Posts: 369
Re: Yacht or Motor Sailer Where's The Line?

Well I guess the brochure on my 1973 Ketch was correct....it is officially a Motor Sailer....

I'll not be able to help much either: I guess all of us would as an example agree that the Fishers and there ilk are motorsailers and that Open-50s are yachts, but beyond that it gets increasingly blurry and our own yacht's a fine example:

We sail 35' Trident 'Challenger' a stern cockpit sloop, originally built with an engine of about 30hp in it and I've never seen it referred to as anything other than a 'yacht'.
Trident Marine also built a 35' 'Warrior' a centre cockpit sloop, originally fitted with an engine of about 60hp and I would say that references to this model are 60/40 in describing it as a yacht or a motorsailor; I suspect because of the big engine?.
During the same period, Trident Marine also built a few 35' 'Voyagers' this being a stern-cockpit pilot-house sloop, originally fitted with an engine of about 40hp; I would say that references to this model are 60/40 in describing it as a motorsailor rather than a yacht, this being on the basis of its pilot house.

Now all three vessels have exactly the same hull/underwater profile, similar weight and whilst I believe that the Voyager's mast is a touch shorter, I think this is due only to the deck-moulding profile and the sail area of all three's remains identical. Whilst none of them could be described as 'fast', they're all very tough and capable ocean crossers (under sail) If I had to choose the best 'sailing' yacht amongst them, I'd probably plump for the Warrior, just shading the Challenger and then the Voyager, with accommodation in the reverse order - though bigger steps between the three.

Honestly, I really don't know; the Challenger's definitely a 'yacht' and with a smaller (why the 60hp job?) the Warrior would always be so thought to, but if they'd put the big motor in the Voyager, I think everyone would've called that a motorsailor, due to its more palatial accommodation?
__________________

__________________
bobnlesley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
motor, sail, yacht

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blue water Ina Sea Sailer 30 motor sailer? Max Sail Monohull Sailboats 4 22-07-2014 18:32
Motor boat plus a sail boat equils a Motor sailer? niel12 Multihull Sailboats 11 02-07-2011 13:15
Which Motor Sailer? bg9208 General Sailing Forum 12 30-06-2011 23:36
C&C motor sailer cats LanceGas Multihull Sailboats 2 07-04-2009 20:50
Looking for a motor sailer Chief Engineer Monohull Sailboats 3 13-12-2007 08:34



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.